Time in grade

[qbushido]

is this because of testing standards or because the instructor only chose students who were ready to test?

[mudansha]

is this because of testing standards or because the instructor only chose students who were ready to test?

As I said before, students are tested based on time only. I can go 12 hours a week, or 1 hour a week, and I am tested on the same date.

He keeps a calendar of when people join. Testing is done every 4 months 10th-5th kyu, and every 6 months 4th-1st kyu.

Case in point:

I am a 4th Kyu. I started at the same time as another guy my age. I go 4 times a week, 2 hours a night, every night. Because of school and kids, he comes 1-2 nights a week MAX for only 1 hour. This means I am putting in 8 hours a week where he is putting in 2-3. This has been going on for 2 years straight and he is the same rank as I am; we test on the same day every time.

I am not really a belt seeker so that part does not bother me. It is more of the fact that I put in a lot more effort and I feel sometimes as if it goes unnoticed. In the end, its all about the knowledge gained and the belts don't matter; that doesn't stop me from thinking about it though.

[qbushido]

sorry I came to this tread late. Im in a related but opposite position. I just moved and started training at a new dojo and thought the right thing to do was to start at 10th kyu despite my experience. Im trusting the head instructors here to adjust rank as they see fit.

To me (and it sounds like you as well) training and the process are most important, rank will work itself out as needed.

[mudansha]

To me (and it sounds like you as well) training and the process are most important, rank will work itself out as needed.

The only reason it concerns me, is it leads to the McDojo philosophy; it becomes about money instead of anything else.

There is no other part of the dojo that feels that way... it just rubs me a bit of how its done.

I guess when I have 40+ years in like my sensei, I can start a dojo and run it how I see fit.

[qbushido]

how do you think your sensei would react to you having a private conversation with him about this?

[mudansha]

how do you think your sensei would react to you having a private conversation with him about this?

I believe that initiating such an inquiry would be disrespectful. I have spoken with the Sempai about it (san dan), but never sensei.

[Lupin1]

Hmmm. You've been saying that the guy doesn't come to class all that often, but you haven't yet mentioned how good he is. I'm not sure what belt you're at, but does the guy meet the standards for that belt, regardless of how often he comes? Maybe he practices at home while he's watching his kids?

It's also important to note that most karate programs expect you to only come two nights a week on most weeks and that they design the time in rank thing with the assumption that people would come about two nights a week. So he's doing exactly what he should be doing-- you're just going above and beyond. In this case, you can't compare him to you in order to determine if he deserves to be the belt you're at-- you need to compare him to the standards for that belt. Are his kicks, punches, forms, sparring and whatever they look at up to the standards for that belt? If so, he's right where he deserves to be. You're just going to be a better green belt or blue belt or whatever because of the effort you put in. The colored belts, in my opinion, are just a symbol of having met certain milestones on your way to mastering the basics. If he's met the milestones appropriate for the color around his waist, then he deserves to wear that color. You're just going to really excel once you hit black belt whereas this guy will probably be a mediocre black belt, which I'm sure will be just fine with him (not everyone wants martial arts to be the driving force of their lives-- just a hobby and a useful skill-set).

[mudansha]

Hmmm. You've been saying that the guy doesn't come to class all that often, but you haven't yet mentioned how good he is. I'm not sure what belt you're at, but does the guy meet the standards for that belt, regardless of how often he comes? Maybe he practices at home while he's watching his kids?

It's also important to note that most karate programs expect you to only come two nights a week on most weeks and that they design the time in rank thing with the assumption that people would come about two nights a week. So he's doing exactly what he should be doing-- you're just going above and beyond. In this case, you can't compare him to you in order to determine if he deserves to be the belt you're at-- you need to compare him to the standards for that belt. Are his kicks, punches, forms, sparring and whatever they look at up to the standards for that belt? If so, he's right where he deserves to be. You're just going to be a better green belt or blue belt or whatever because of the effort you put in. The colored belts, in my opinion, are just a symbol of having met certain milestones on your way to mastering the basics. If he's met the milestones appropriate for the color around his waist, then he deserves to wear that color. You're just going to really excel once you hit black belt whereas this guy will probably be a mediocre black belt, which I'm sure will be just fine with him (not everyone wants martial arts to be the driving force of their lives-- just a hobby and a useful skill-set).

As I said before, it does not really bother me that this other guy is the same rank. I am 4th kyu and will be testing for brown in a month or so. I just wish the testing were done based on skill attained rather than time in grade. I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if I saw people failing tests, but no one ever has, despite how good or bad they performed.

[sensei8]

I determine who can test, not my students and not time in grade. Time in grade only acts as a prerequisite for a pending testing cycle, but, it's not a guarantee that one would be considered and/or invited to a testing cycle!

Come to class and train! Don't worry about when one can test and when one can't test: just train! Just train with all of your heart and soul and the testing cycle will take care of itself. I'll know when someone's ready to test and that's when they'll test and not before. The fastest way to NEVER be invited to a testing cycle is to not practice and/or practice very little; trust me, I know if someone's practiced or not.

Testing a student based on time in grade can only serve against the means. Time in grade lets a student know when they can submit a request to attend a testing cycle and in that, time in grade lets me know that a student has meet the minimum requirement to submit said testing cycle request.

The momma bird only kicks her baby bird out of the nest when that baby bird is ready and no time sooner; the momma bird knows!

[Blade96]

i just train and let my sensei decide when my 8th kyu test will be.

i think i'm about ready, or i mean they think im about ready, a black belt said he thought they might test me before christmas but i guess not.

ah well. not like i care much....gives me more time to train.

although i did ask questions as to what it will be like and i got an idea, i do everything I've learned in front of them and the black belts.

they did say usual time is to wait about 4 or 5 months before testing but i suppose if you know all your stuff and have the right attitude and passion and eagerness and leadership skills......

speaking of attitude, I've heard of people who really dont have the right attitude faking it so they can get a belt (not in my dojo, but elsewhere) I would hope senseis would have the ability to sense who is real and who is faking it for a belt. Just thinking karate is an art, and arts are about people, so is teaching, I would hope that senseis who'd be grading would be pretty good judges of character.