Time in grade

[mudansha]

I am just wondering how belt grades are given at most schools and what it usually takes to get a dan ranking in most traditional styles. I have a few friends that are in Tae Kwon Do that have obtained their black belts within 3 years. I have 3 years in and I am testing for 4th kyu in a week.

Our dojo has 11 Kyu levels including white. The testing schedule is as follows:

11-7 Kyu every 3 months (15)

6th-5th kyu every 4 months (

4th-1st kyu every 6 months (24)

1st dan = 1 year as 1st kyu (12)

2nd dan 2 years as 1st dan

et cetera

This puts the minimum time for a shodan at 59 months (just under 5 years).

I have also noticed a trend that it is based on "time in grade". I have noticed that students that come once a week are tested at the same interval as students that come 4 times a week. I have also noticed a reluctance of my sensei to test for black belts. In the past, many people who have tested for black belt have stopped coming. As a result, in the last 2 years no one has been issued a black belt test and we have 3 first kyus.

I realize karate is about the knowledge, not the belt. I am just curious has anyone else noticed this trend or in other schools are students tested on knowledge alone rather than time in grade?

[Vierna]

well, in my school, in about a year you can get blue belt, then 6-10 months later till brown, and another year-year and a half for Shodan... that means approximately 3 years for 1. dan...

[Seija]

Here are the MINIMUM time requirements for our school,

Beginner / Mu-kyu (white)

8th kyu / Hachi-kyu (gold) 3 months in previous rank, 50 hours training, 3 months total

7th kyu / Shichi-kyu (orange) 3 months in previous rank, 100 hours training, 6 months total

6th kyu / Roku-kyu (blue) 3 months in previous rank, 150 hours training, 9 months total

5th kyu / Go-kyu (purple) 6 months in previous rank, 250 hours training, 15 months total

4th kyu / Yon-kyu (green) 6 months in previous rank, 350 hours training, 21 months total

3rd kyu / San-kyu (brown) 6 months in previous rank, 500 hours training, 27 months total

2nd kyu / Ni-kyu (brown) 9 months in previous rank, 650 hours training, 36 months total

1st kyu / Ik-kyu (brown) 9 months in previous rank, 800 hours training, 45 months total

lst dan / Sho-dan (black) 1000 hours training, 4 years total

Each rank also has either, written tests, essays, book reports or other academic requirements as well as stringent physical requirements and character/attitude requirements as well.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Of course, your ma training skills are tempered in the the furnace of the dojo - for as many hours as necessary, but the cynic in me says that setting overly excessive amount of training hours between belts (just for the sake of it), is often just an excuse to generate revenue for many clubs / schools.

Whilst I do not advocate "racing through belts" I think natural skill levels and aptitude have to come into it.

In my group, the "regulation" time between belts (8th kyu - 3rd kyu (incl.) is 3 months and min 24 hours training. 2nd kyu to 1st kyu - 1st dan is 6 months between. This means that "technically" you are eligible to grade for Shodan after 2.5 years of training, but no one ever does because the technical requirements are too high and the content of the syllabus too extensive.

Also, something else to think about when we talk about grades (more pertaining to dan grade maybe) is the fact that when many of the first wave of Japanese instructors came over to Europe / US, their grades were often "enhanced" by the association / master whose teachings they were attempting to propagate.

I have heard on a number of occasions about instructors who left the shores of Japan as 1st/2nd dans only to arrive in the UK as 4th dans!

But thats marketing I suppose.

WNM

[Kruczek]

I have seen people go from 6th kyu to 1st dan in under a year...I think it is ridiculous. I tend to believe that 4-6 years to get your 1st Dan is reasonable, but it should be soley based on your ability and understanding. When I test I do not care if they have been here a week or a decade if they know what I want for each belt.

Kyu ranks - Increasing knowledge of how to do the curriculum.

Shodan - A COMPLETE understanding of HOW TO DO all Kyu rank curriculum.

Nidan - A large understanding of why things work the way they do and how to convey that to students. Additional Kata, bunkai, and complexes learned fully.

Sandan - FULLY competent to teach a class on their own.

[Vierna]

^ I know... I mean, if I wanted, I could have got my Shodan 5-6 years ago... But I knew I didnt have the knowledge for it and I have constantly refused my Sensei for the test... Even though I still think I dont have the knowledge for 1. dan, my new Sensei didnt take NO for an answer (he even said he would finance it, if that is the problem 0.o) and has made me go thought the test (we were on seminar in Montenegro, so I really didnt have any choice :/ ). I have passed the test after 8 years of training, but if it was on me, I would still be 1.kyu......

[emjay]

I think it is also important to remember that the belt system is a fairly new creation compared to the lifespan of the arts themselves. It was originally just used by Kano (judo founder) to help his students tell eachother's skill levels within his own dojo. I would bet it was never really meant to become what is is today. So, while some schools hold training time as an official requirement, and others play it by ear with skill being the dominant factor, it is such a fluidic system that not alot of stock can be placed in it by itself. You have to get to know the Karateka individually to know if the belt he has, he truly earned. And, at the end of the day, the belt just holds your Gi closed anyway.

I think it was Rorion Gracie that once said "A belt covers about 10% of your , covering the rest is up to you."

[Truestar]

I think "time in grade" is all for money anyway. Forcing a person to sit at a rank is just silly. If they meet the physical requirements, and know the material and are able to pass it on, then holding anyone from rank for a time "issue" is business, not Martial Arts.

[Vierna]

I think "time in grade" is all for money anyway.

true... I look at the schools in my country and I can positively say you are totally right... I mean, come on! Blue belt with brown stripe? Or two yellow belts? That is very expensive! -.-

[isshinryu5toforever]

I don't think all time in grade is just for money. Now, when you have 12 rankings between white belt and black belt, ok, that's getting carried away. If you're looking at the standard: white, yellow, green, brown, black or even white, yellow, orange, green, purple, brown, black, that's not so bad. And in traditional martial arts, it's often as much about reconciling the theory and philosophy behind the martial arts as it is learning the physical curriculum. They've taught monkeys how to kick and punch, but that doesn't mean they understand why they do it.