Duties & Responsibilities of the Senior Student

[ninjanurse]

If I were to run my own school and required teaching time I would expect my students to teach with nothing in return.

Now, as a school owner I wouldn't personally not give anything for teaching. 1) You're doing a requirement for a higher rank, that's honor in itself, 2) I would probably offer lower rates or some similar payment.

Now, legally, if I were to ever hint that someone was looking to take action against me in any way for the discussion (volunteer, paid work whatever), I would immediately kick that student out of my school. That's just disrespectful.

I was asked to instruct alongside my master instructor. We didn't discuss getting paid, getting gifts, lower rates or anything. He asked if I would help out, I said yes. A month later, I no longer pay any tuition for my classes. A good deal in my eyes.

Just thinking about what has been said here (and I do agree with it) and in other posts in the thread "Teach for Free?"and it brings to mind the question "What are the duties and responsibilities of the senior student (sempai)?" Is the traditional role of the sempai evident in most schools these days or are students simply paid to assume those duties?

[Tiger1962]

I understand that there are certain responsibilities of being a senior student that are written as "rules" or "by-laws" in a martial arts organization.

On the flip side, I also am understanding of the fact that as an adult, senior student, there are responsibilities in life that take precedence over the responsibilities of being a senior rank student in a martial arts school. This goes for the younger "senior" students as well.

Extremely often enough an adult student will come home from work, take class and then have to go home to: cook, clean, take care of kids, chores in the house, take care of an elderly or sick parent, child or spouse. This does not leave time for the senior student to assist at the next class or on another day when the only free time is spent either doing those responsibilities in life OR taking class for his or herself.

The same can be said for a younger student who is a senior rank that must go home after class to do their homework, write reports, or simply leave because the parent is there to pick them up and has to go home to do whatever.

Back when I first became a dan, I was told of certain responsibilities expected of being a dan. I then made it clear to my instructor that because of my job demands and other personal responsibilities, it was not always possible for me to fulfill that. Students who can NOT fulfill certain requests such as assisting or helping out, due to more important commitments in life, should NOT be penalized. That is not fair and if that is the case in any school I encounter in the future, I will leave.

As far as being "paid to help out" in the school, I don't really have a strong opinion of that one way or another. If I am in class and I am available to help, then fine. I don't expect to get paid. However, if the instructor WANTS to pay someone, as a way of ensuring that they would have a reliable and steady presence there to help, then that's fine too. Again, it just all needs to be worked at from the get-go.

[Truestar]

Ah, and we can dig deeper.

I am going to assume some things here, which may be incorrect but I have a strong feeling that there's truth behind it.

I'm going to assume traditionally whether it be China, Japan, Korea, wherever, that many years ago when an instructor trusted a student to start teaching that it was a great honor. I would assume that the instructor was putting trust into the Sempai that they know their material and are able to pass it on to others.

I consider myself more of this attitude. My instructor asked me about it, we have a 20 hour teaching requirement before 1st Dan that can be split up whenever possible. Because the classes average an hour in length that's about 20 classes that can be spread throughout a few months or more. So my schools teaching requirement is not a demanding one.

Now, when I approached the concept of being an assistant instructor my mind quickly degraded the school of thought "what am I getting out of it". Sounds too good to be true to some instructors but I did not expect anything out of my contributions, and I still don't. The "business" of the Martial Arts does not concern me, and I don't expect it to ever take a hold of me regardless of whether or not I start a school or club.

However, my view and the life I live I consider to be more of a traditional outlook. Maybe this is due to the fact all I do is Martial Arts, I get out of school at 3 and go there until about 7-7:30 4 nights a week. During the summers I attend any adult day classes. I go to open floor Saturdays, and I agreed to teach the "beginner" class once a week at the YMCA. What I do is not a sport to me, it's my lifestyle.

So that may have a large impact on my thoughts also. When student takes the role of Sempai (assistant instructor, etc.) I think they need to understand that they are being used as a channel for their Martial knowledge. If that AI evolves beyond completing their "rank requirement" (like myself) and ends up instructing for the persevering of the Martial Arts I would hope that they see a larger picture than not paying tuition, or getting paid. Those in my eyes are simply bonuses, bonuses that I don't expect, but gratefully accept.

Now, if a student is simply making a rank requirement, that in itself says enough. They are doing something for their rank, period. Now if this is the path we're looking at, I would suppose you could go further in depth as in how demanding is the teaching requirement? 20 hours before 1st Dan in my school I believe is reasonable, maybe even slightly forgiving.

The Martial Arts can be for everybody, black belt cannot. There's a an entire new conversation to that but that's how I figured I would close.

[bushido_man96]

I think that the main role of the senior student is to be a role model and example for the rest of the students in the class. If a student needs some help, then the senior should be able to offer it. The senior should know all of the requirements up to his own. I think that is the main role.

[ninjanurse]

So that may have a large impact on my thoughts also. When student takes the role of Sempai (assistant instructor, etc.) I think they need to understand that they are being used as a channel for their Martial knowledge. If that AI evolves beyond completing their "rank requirement" (like myself) and ends up instructing for the persevering of the Martial Arts I would hope that they see a larger picture than not paying tuition, or getting paid. Those in my eyes are simply bonuses, bonuses that I don't expect, but gratefully accept.

Traditionally, the role of the sempai was to oversee the training and development of lower ranking students and to the protect the sensei. They were hand-picked for their skills and loyalty and were often privy to sensitive information regarding the sensei and dojo. Not a position to be taken lightly and those that slacked off or failed in their duties were replaced quickly. In todays dojo it is hard to find that one student who desires to fill this role in the traditional sense and who is willing to commit their life to the preservation of the art...but they are out there.

I pay my sempai with knowledge and experience. Can you put a price on that?

[Truestar]

So a Sempai isn't necessarily just an assistant instructor, they're more like you said, protecting the the Sensei and the art they teach?

[Tiger1962]

Ok, so just to clarify, are we now referring to someone who was or is "asked" to help out on occasion, OR someone who holds the position of assistant instructor of the school and actually worked toward that position?

Because I was referring to the earlier situation, which has different connotations than the latter.

Being a senior student, without holding the title of assistant instructor has different (in my eyes) meaning than a senior student who worked toward and achieved the title of assistant instructor because my response was based upon the opening title of the thread.

[Kruczek]

I have been teaching at my sensei's school for almost 6 years now. I have NEVER asked to be paid. WHen I started my instructors agreed that if you wanted to "own" the dojo you were equally liable for any loss. I don't touch the books or the money and there has been months where I will teach and never learn anything myself.

You do it for the love of the school and the love of the art. I can remember times I didn't pay tuition and I remember times I paid more than regular tuition because I wanted to make sure the school was doing well.

As for what I expect of my senior student(s). They need to help when I need help. I teach them for free and I expect them to help me teach the new people for free too. Typically I will teach my two senior students and if someone else wants help I will send one over and work 1 on 1 with the other and then switch. When I have to run early I expect them to teach each other and the new guys...because it needs done.

Karate should NEVER be a buisness with the aim of profit. The aim should always be to spread the art and keep it alive. Just have to do what you can with what you have, good students will pitch in with whatever they can.

[sensei8]

"What are the duties and responsibilities of the senior student (sempai)?"

I'll only speak about the duties/responsibilities of the Sempai from a Shindokan point of view.

No two persons have the same rank. Line-up at the Shindokan Hombu for students of Yondan and lower:

1) the person with the higher rank is more senior (Brown belt is senior to Green belt, etc).

2) if two persons hold the same rank, the earlier date of rank is more senior.

3) if of the same rank, and same date of rank, whoever became a student first is senior.

4) if of the same rank, same date of rank, same start date, the oldest person is senior.

Obviously rank doesn't have much to do with skill levels. Relative rank can change.

An important note about relative rank; when visiting any other dojo, most will only line up using your belt color. No haggling over who is more senior among white, green, or brown belts. I will automatically take the most junior position unless asked by the host dojo to take a more senior position. For every dojo that I visit, I will automatically assume the most junior position out of respect for that Sensei and his/her dojo. Then and only then will I assume any other position as directed by the Chief Instructor of that dojo. Again, rank's nothing, therefore, I'm nothing!

For me to automatically assume a Sensei/Sempai position based on my Hachidan is very presumptuous of me. I'm a guest of that Sensei/Dojo/Style, therefore, the lowest Kohai position is where I will line up.

Sure, many at first will look at me with noted surprise. Here I am, a Hachidan, sitting at the lowest Kohai position on the floor. I've even had Jukyu's motion me to the front, while other Jukyu's have sat there quite, yet, wondering as to my intent. Still, my understanding of the roles/responsibilities of the Sempai/Kohai causes me to sit in the lowest Kohai position when I'm a visitor/guest at a host Hombu/Dojo.

Etiquette at the Shindokan Hombu is strict across the board. Roles/responsibilities of the Sempai are enforced without any reservation and/or any hesitance. For any Shindokan stylist to understand what the roles/responsibilities are of the Sempai, all one has to do is first look upon the Dai-Soke, who looked upon the Soke for their understandings of his/her roles/responsibilities.

Is the traditional role of the sempai evident in most schools these days or are students simply paid to assume those duties?

I'd say Sempai's by it's traditional role are out there, but, I'd venture to say that the traditional role of the Sempai's aren't as noticed because of the many "belt factories" that surround these schools. Kind of hard to be noticed when fluff outweighs stuff.

[cathal]

I watched a show about a woman who went to live with an Aikido sensei. The sempai was responsible for the day-to-day organization and shepherding of the students. As well the sempai would act as a jack of all trades, gopher, paper-pusher, etc.