How Do You Punch?

[joesteph]

I guess I started out punching, way back when, by using arm and shoulder power. I don't remember throwing my hip or bodyweight into it, but I thought my punches had power, especially since I knew I had to punch through the target.

Studying Soo Bahk Do, there's an emphasis on throwing the hip into the punch, and there's a "bow and arrow movement" with the body as you rotate the hips. I'd say you're expected to be pretty well grounded when doing so. It did add more power to my punch.

When I read Jack Dempsey's "Championship Fighting," I can't say I really understood his "falling step," but I can say that it opened up more twist to my body, whether jab or cross punch, rotating not only my hips but my body on the balls of my feet. I felt I was throwing more of my body into it, and it felt so fluid, so natural, that I was very happy with my punching power.

Since taking--not just reading about (thank you Teri Tom for your Black Belt magazine articles)--Jeet Kune Do lessons, and experiencing the straight lead, committing the hand first, shifting the bodyweight from back to front, and hitting the target a split second before the lead foot lands, I'm finding myself punching much differently.

I researched the forums for the "One Strike One Kill" thread, and within it I found a link to Iain Abernethy's web site:

http://go.karateforums.com/?id=378X600&url=http%3A//www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Power_and_Impact.asp

where he's advocating that the body must move first. I feel that the way Dempsey and Abernethy fight, it's a lot of power, but I'd say it seems to be more "push punch power" in comparison with Lee's "snap punch power." Kuma recommended Phillip Starr's "Martial Mechanics," which I'm now reading, and Chapter 5 has force generating from the rear foot as the "driving foot" for punching power, that foot shown rooted in the photos. But there's also a photo of Teri Tom's fist just starting to hit a focus mitt, her lead foot a hairsbreath away from landing, and her rear heel up as the rear foot propels her forward, in the July edition of Black Belt.

I just know that when I restart adult Soo Bahk Do lessons on Thursday (taking SBD earlier than my JKD lesson later that night--wish me luck!), I might have to adjust to two kinds of punching, depending on where I'm training.

What do other members favor, or do you find yourselves "mixing it up"?

[isshinryu5toforever]

Punching is completely situational. It also depends on what you desire to do with the punch. By WTF rules, you're more likely to throw a punch that's more of a "push," because you want to set up a kick. You can use punches with no snap to stop people, and set up distance.

Snapping vs. non-snapping is a very interesting comparison, but what the power comparisons don't show is the effect on the body. I'm not a biologist, so I can't make a big comment, but I think that would be a very interesting comparison. What do the punches do to the body internally? Is there any difference?

[joesteph]

This is more than confined to punching, but it's interesting:

In Starr's "Martial Mechanics," he refers to four types of impacts, with illustrations and photos showing four strikes generating impact: focused, piercing, snap-back, and smashing.

For focused, there are two illustrations of a punch against a water-filled balloon, one with a horizontal fist, the other with a vertical. The point of impact is dented in, and the opposite side bulges out. There's no reference to it being a snap or push punch, but the force generated through the opponent causes internal damage. Photos of a punch to the chin and a front snap kick to the midsection come after the explanation.

For piercing, the illustration is of a finger strike to the water-filled balloon. (The text also refers to using "second knuckles" [meaning finger joint knuckles?].) It looks like only a dent at point of impact, It causes internal damage to soft tissue, and an accompanying photo shows a spear hand to the throat.

For snap-back, the illustration is of a backfist to make a very small dent in the water-filled balloon at impact, followed by a bulging out at that same point of impact. The author says it has very little penetration, but the outward bulge is from what he refers to as impulse. The whiplike motion against bone, such as in the accompanying photo of a backfist to the temple, can shatter the bone.

For smashing impact, the illustration is of a hammerfist against a water-filled balloon, distorting it outwards, with the idea that the blow is meant to crush on impact. Accompanying photos are of an elbow strike and a knee strike, both to the head.

[tallgeese]

Relaxed on initial movement, tightening during impact, strike though target. Hand is positioned however it's most effective to make good contact with a given target.

[The BB of C]

If I use a closed fist, I focus my intentions through the target but snap after contact. The vist is vertical and usually followed by Waterfall technique. If I follow through with the punch, my hand is usually open using a palm or ridge hand.

[joesteph]

Snapping vs. non-snapping is a very interesting comparison, but what the power comparisons don't show is the effect on the body. . . .

What do the punches do to the body internally? Is there any difference?

I've exhausted possibilities trying to find where I'd read a comparison of the snap vs. the non-snap so I could quote from it or direct to it, Isshinryu, but, from memory, the snap expends its energy within the body (I'd say like a smaller caliber bullet [hollow point?] going at a very high speed), but the non-snap keeps its energy going straight through the body for knockdown power (to me, like a .45 caliber bullet that travels at a slower speed, but is much heavier).

Personally, I'd do more "headhunting" with the snap, and more "battering ram" (to the torso) with the non-snap.

[ShoriKid]

I have to disagree with the assertion that Dempsey "pushes" with his punches. If you read the description of how to throw the "jolting left", it's relaxed to the point of impact, includes the forward momentum from his step, before it transfers into the ground, and explosive contraction on impact. Sounds pretty hard hitting and explosive to me if it lands.

How do I punch? Depends. Lighter, snapping, strikes work in some situations and on some targets. More powerful, penetrating, strikes go to other targets for other needs.

[gzk]

The way I *try* to punch is:

* loose and relaxed, to "whip" the punch through, clenching as I go through the target

* weight on balls of feet to permit hip and shoulder rotation, and take advantage of the force moment to load up and throw the next punch of the combination

* turn the fist over so it's horizontal for straight punches or uppercuts, vertical fist for hooks, body rips, etc

* retract loose and fast back into the guard - same way it went out

[Tiger1962]

Throwing one's whole body weight into a punch tends to help avoid injuring oneself (at least FOR ME anyway) than if you were to just punch with only arm or shoulder strength. It also gives more force to the punch.

[bushido_man96]

In TKD, I punch from the ground up. There aren't many lead hand punches in the TKD forms, and if there is one, it is usually followed by a rear hand punch, or it is a lead hand punch in a back stance, with a hip twist prior to the punch, and a lift of the front foot.

When I work the heavy bag, and when I spar, I try to punch with a pivot on my toes, again driving from the ground up, into the hips, then shoulders, and on out.

In reading about the straight lead, and then attempting to punch that way, I have to admit that I don't care for it that much. I'm sure that if I could spend some time working with an instructor that is good at it, I would probably see the value in it. However, the movements of the punch, starting with the hand, etc, are all very ackward to me, so I don't venture to use it that much. If I punch with my lead hand, it is usually a jab.

In basics and forms, my punches tend to be more of a penetrating type; there is no snap back. When I work the bag, I always recoil the punch to the hands up position. I try for good snap and speed on return, but also try to focus through the target, making the bag swing.