Aikido responses vs. Karate responses

[bushido_man96]

I came across this passage in reading C.M. Shifflett's book Aikdio Exercises for Teaching and Training, and thought I would share the idea here, and make some conversation.

Basically, its a Q&A spot in the book, and the question asks how Aikido is different from Karate, and the answer is "in variety of responses and end goal." A brief list follows, listing 4 possible attacks: pull wrist in, push wrist in, turn wrist in, or turn wrist out.

The answer from the Karate point of view to each question is Punch/Kick, where as the Aikido answer is different for each, in this order: enter (irimi), turn (tenkan), shio-nage, or sankyo (wrist lock).

It appeared to me here, that the Karate aspect wasn't really getting a fair shake in the deal, as there are many different ways to deal with attacks in Karate that don't necessarily equal punch/kick. To just say punch/kick, is to simplify too much, as Karate could also utilize outside movements, inside movements, and the like. As far as the "goal" of each style is concerned, I would save for perhaps a different thread. Although I do agree that Aikido does have a variety of ways to deal with different attacks, I also feel that striking styles do so, as well, and that they deserve there dues.

I would be intersted in hearing elaborations from both the Aikido and Karate/striking sides of this discussion, as I feel both can learn a lot from each other.

[ShoriKid]

Looking over the response I have to say, the Aikido man is a good sales man.

He's showing diversity in his product and lack of options/attractiveness in the opposing brand.

Seriously though? I know of a variety of responses to a set of wrist attacks. I can, yes, punch or kick, the variety of which wouldn't matter to the Aikidoka. I can apply a lock, turn the body, close to use short range weapons, withdraw to off balance etc. Plenty of options really. Not real sure how detailed a response your looking for Bushido_man.

[isshinryu5toforever]

In my experience, the response system for Karate and Aikido is similar. Aikido, of course deals with small joint manipulations, movement, and throws. Karate deals with striking, but movement is still a huge part of it. The principals of Tai Sabaki (movements that put you at the advantage) are present in Judo, Aikido, and Karate.

Karate also encompasses some locks and throws. They aren't as pretty or refined as in Aikido and Judo, but they do exist. I'll echo the above sentiment and say the Aikido guy is a great salesman.

[bushido_man96]

Not real sure how detailed a response your looking for Bushido_man.

Elaborate all you want, or as little as you want. I just wanted to generate some discussion, that's all.

In our TKD classes, we also tend to work angles in our sparring, and in our one-steps, both of which could be adapted to self-defense. Its more than just punch or kick.

[sensei8]

Aikido responses!

Karate responses!

BOTH are the same at their cores! Really! Truly! They both do differ when looked at with the broad stroke of the paintbrush, this is for sure. Their methodologies/doctrine are different as how one is to travel on the path, but, at the end, the same goal/place is achieved/reached.

For example, Aikido has its striking properties and Karate has its striking properties, but, a strike is a strike. Angles, deflections, and the like all make up the strikes which are governed by their methodologies.

isshinryu5toforever states it well...

Aikido, of course deals with small joint manipulations, movement, and throws. Karate deals with striking, but movement is still a huge part of it. The principals of Tai Sabaki (movements that put you at the advantage) are present in Judo, Aikido, and Karate.

For the Karateka, this is TUITE! Within the strikes for the karateka comes those tuite movements.

The Punch/Kick answer that Brian's referring to in his OP is a very narrow way to look at Karate by C.M. Shifflett. This answer was limited because C.M. Shifflett's answer only demonstrates his limited Karate experience/understanding, imho. I imagine if Shindokan was just a punch/kick art, I would've quit it along time ago because the world of the martial arts isn't that black and white. It would be wrong of me to say that Aikido is just a throwing art, therefore, C.M. Shifflett is wrong to imply, directly and/or indirectly, that Karate is just a punch/kick art. Each, Aikido and Karate, are more than that!!!!

Many, not all, Aikido throws are set-up by the strike first. For example...

Aikido's Yokomenuchi is very similar to Karate's Shuto, but, the angle in how the strike is delivered in Aikido differs from Karate. How? An Aikido practitioner will deliver this strike at a 45 degree angle, while a Karate practitioner will deliver this strike more horizontal.

Aikido's Katadori Menuchi is a combination of two attacks: katadori and shomenuchi. The Aikidoist grabs the shoulder, and immediately follows up with a shomenuchi strike, possibly similar to the Karate Shuto downward strike to the top of the head. This combination and many other combinations in Aikido utilize katatedori because this grip as an initial and not a final attack.

The former explains that the Aikido stike is essential to many Aikido techniques, but, the latter is Tuite to a Karateka! Plain and simple!

I could show many other similarities between these two styles, but, again, the path that Aikido and Karate take are different, but, the goal/destination is the same; effective applications!

[bushido_man96]

Very nice layouts there, Bob. Thanks for the explanation.

[unknownstyle]

in my own opinion aikido is very hard to use on the streets, karate is alot easier to translate in a fight

[sensei8]

in my own opinion aikido is very hard to use on the streets, karate is alot easier to translate in a fight

Could you possibly extrapolate a little more please!

[bushido_man96]

in my own opinion aikido is very hard to use on the streets, karate is alot easier to translate in a fight

Could you possibly extrapolate a little more please!

With my limited experience with Aikido thus far, I would agree. There are a lot of intricacies in Aikido, from the types of movements you make, to the giving/taking energy, and things like that. Of course, schools do vary, and some may have a process that translates things faster than others. What I have experienced so far is a lot of technical points in the moves; also, the philosophy of not using much offensive attack at all makes it more difficult to translate, in my opinion.