The bane of learning the side kick, is the round kick...

[bushido_man96]

Ok, the title may sound odd, but its something that I think about almost every class when I see students doing side kicks, and chopping the chambers up to where the kick looks like a half round/half side kick, and not a good side kick.

Rateh noted something about learning to chamber side kicks and back kicks in the thread What did I teach today? :

I took them through step behind side kicks, and spin back kicks against the kick shields. Both of these kicks have chambers that can be challenging for students to start and end the kick in. I was quite impressed with the students as they have gotten a lot better at these two kicks.

Now, I am not trying to assume that the difficulties in teaching a good side kick are compounded by the existence of the round kick, but when I see things like this happen in class, it frustrates me because the short cut gets taken a lot on a side kick, and the short cut is always in the chamber. Then it always turns into the half-in-half kick.

Do any other instructors see this problem with teaching the side kick, especially to the beginners through intermediate levels? I even catch it in some black belts at times, trying to make a fast side kick with half a chamber.

Just a little rant from me. Anyone else?

[isshinryu5toforever]

When you first teach the kicks, I think it's important to show the students specific chambers, so they don't go through what you're describing. I like to show the students that the side kick is more of a thrusting kick, while the round kick is more of a snapping kick. That's just when they first learn it though. As you progress, your chambers may modify a little or a lot depending on who you are.

Kenji Yamaki, who founded the Kyokushin offshoot Yamaki-Ryu was difficult to face, not only because of his size, but because of the way he disguised his kicks. Every one of his kicks came from the same chambered position. They changed mid-flight. Some people may see that as laziness when they see it on the floor, but when you see it live in a fight, and the way it beautifully works in the hands of someone that's highly trained, it's a tough thing to argue.

[DWx]

A major problem that I see a lot is where on getting to a side kick chamber position, instead of kicking the leg out in a straight line, the lower leg will move in an arc as the top half pushes outwards. So you'll end up with the roundhouse movement on the lower leg and a very ineffective kick. To combat this I make people go and stand with their back against a wall and kick parallel to it, then they can't do a roundhouse because the wall is in the way.

[bushido_man96]

Kenji Yamaki, who founded the Kyokushin offshoot Yamaki-Ryu was difficult to face, not only because of his size, but because of the way he disguised his kicks. Every one of his kicks came from the same chambered position. They changed mid-flight. Some people may see that as laziness when they see it on the floor, but when you see it live in a fight, and the way it beautifully works in the hands of someone that's highly trained, it's a tough thing to argue.

I think that once a student has developed the strength and actions in the hips, that one can get away with doing this. But, its important to learn the proper way, first.

[Rateh]

I have used a variety of methods over the years to teach a side kick, almost all have emphasized the differences between the two. One thing I like to do is demonstrate using the side kick at a very close distance. If one tries to use a round kick or a round/side kick chamber then the kick is ineffective. But if one utilizes a correct side kick chamber, one can effectively kick the opponent away from them.

[ninjanurse]

It seems that no matter how many times you show/explain the difference in the chambers of the kicks they still throw it as described (half side/half round). My theory is poor practice habits(...if I could only be a fly on the wall!!!!).

[sensei8]

It seems that no matter how many times you show/explain the difference in the chambers of the kicks they still throw it as described (half side/half round). My theory is poor practice habits(...if I could only be a fly on the wall!!!!).

DING! DING! DING! DING! "Johnny, what do we have for the winner?" ninjanurse, you hit the nail right on the head! SOLID! We can only show them how to properly execute/practice the side kick, but, it's up to the students to practice as they've been shown/told to by their instructor. As long as students practice poorly, then we'll have these half side/half round kicks until the end of time.

Each and every class, I/you, can tell who's been practicing as well as who's been practicing correctly. On the other hand, I/you can tell who's NOT been practicing correctly in mere seconds of observing them. I/you ask them...."Have you been practicing?"..."Yes Maam/Sir!"..."Yeah, nice try, but, would you like to try that answer again because from where I'm standing, and I'm standing right here, I can tell you've NOT been practicing and you've NOT been practicing correctly!"

Drives me to drink a diet soda....and....I hate diet soda's...yuck!

[JusticeZero]

Some of them DO practice, quite a bit. It's just that they practice by doing it sloppily and wrong. Some basic movements I insert what amounts to an extra stop in in an exaggerated intermediary position, in your case, where the chamber is, so that the extra stop pulls it into a more tight form when it is done "lazily".

[tonydee]

Assuming a side thrusting kick is actually desired... my approach is to get them so familiar with the mechanics as delivered during a spinning side kick or step-behind kick that it's ingrained, and they're almost addicted to the feeling of thrusting power. Then, giving them time and asking them to kick hard, perhaps reinforced by holding a shield, they'll happily make sure they pull the leg across to chamber it properly so they can reconnect to that feeling, and get the same satisfaction during the lock. Then, very gradually, comes the process of developing the timing and positioning necessary to deliver a fast kick off the back leg.

Separately, the side piercing kick should look a bit like a turning kick....

Cheers,

Tony

[sensei8]

Some of them DO practice, quite a bit. It's just that they practice by doing it sloppily and wrong. Some basic movements I insert what amounts to an extra stop in in an exaggerated intermediary position, in your case, where the chamber is, so that the extra stop pulls it into a more tight form when it is done "lazily".

Absolutely! Bad/sloppy practicing does tend to turn into bad habits and bad habits tend to turn into incorrect muscleo memory on the floor, especially if their instructor doesn't snip it at the moment it begins to happen...all this is bad.