Chances of reaching dan grades

[Killer Miller]

Personally, I think those statistics should be improved upon... Therefore, I'm starting a website "MacKarateRanks.com" selling belt ranks.

Prices will be as follows:

White Belt - $10

Green Belt - $25

Brown Belt - $50 - $75 (Depending on the Kyu)

Shodan (General) - $350

Shodan (JKA) - $500

Nidan (General) - $1,000

Nidan (JKA) - $2,000

Sandan - Godan (General) - $4,000

Sandan - Godan (JKA) - $6,000

All other ranks will be sold in limited amounts and will be auctioned off to the highest bidders.

Package deals that includes all ranks and certificates up to Shodan (your choice of "General" or "JKA" certificates) will be offered for just $1,650!

All certificates signed by G. Funikoshi are an additional $5,000 (FREE Tokaido Gi and Black Belt pre-worn to white Included!).

Note: Resellers will get a 45% wholesale discount...!

Do your part to promote Karate and Go to MacKarateRanks.com NOW and work your way to becoming the pretigious rank of Black Belt!

No training required...

- Killer -

:0)

[ps1]

Personally, I think those statistics should be improved upon... Therefore, I'm starting a website "MacKarateRanks.com" selling belt ranks.

Prices will be as follows:

White Belt - $10

Green Belt - $25

Brown Belt - $50 - $75 (Depending on the Kyu)

Shodan (General) - $350

Shodan (JKA) - $500

Nidan (General) - $1,000

Nidan (JKA) - $2,000

Sandan - Godan (General) - $4,000

Sandan - Godan (JKA) - $6,000

All other ranks will be sold in limited amounts and will be auctioned off to the highest bidders.

Package deals that includes all ranks and certificates up to Shodan (your choice of "General" or "JKA" certificates) will be offered for just $1,650!

All certificates signed by G. Funikoshi are an additional $5,000 (FREE Tokaido Gi and Black Belt pre-worn to white Included!).

Note: Resellers will get a 45% wholesale discount...!

Do your part to promote Karate and Go to MacKarateRanks.com NOW and work your way to becoming the pretigious rank of Black Belt!

No training required...

- Killer -

:0)

First Bid for 10th Dan in BraziIsshinShotoKyokuKungKwonRyuShinDoFuJitsu

$17,595...

Does that come with a cloak, lightsaber, Red-White-Black-Blue Belt?

If so...I'll bid $18,267

[Killer Miller]

That package only comes with starting bids of $20k...

- Killer -

[quote name="ps1

First Bid for 10th Dan in BraziIsshinShotoKyokuKungKwonRyuShinDoFuJitsu

$17' date='595...

Does that come with a cloak, lightsaber, Red-White-Black-Blue Belt?

If so...I'll bid $18,267

[/quote]

[tonydee]

In my original school, at best a couple percent of students made first dan. Of those, locally, for a decade or so only the chief instructor was a 2nd dan. Our Korean 8th dan didn't like the idea of anyone else being senior enough in the eyes of the students and their families to look credible running their own gradings. Maybe 15 years after becoming the local chief instructor - with 20 dojang and 500 students under him, teaching 2-3 hours per day every night of the week and some weekends - he got to grade for 3rd dan, and afterwards a select few of the other instructors got a crack at 2nd dan. The chief instructor did then split off, but applied similar tactics: the best instructors were still 3rd dan after ~25 years, with the only way to 4th dan being heading off somewhere to become a chief instructor of another state....

More generally, in the large international taekwondo organisations it's generally expected that a reasonable talented and conscientious student will get to grade to 2nd dan after a year or two, to 3rd dan after two or three more, 4th dan after 3 or 4 etc.. This approach tends to keep people loyal, as they feel respected, even though any given dan can mean vastly different things in different places. Those supporting the school through teaching, and especially expanding the school into new areas, are most likely to be recognised. In such a system, I think it's likely that many of the 1st dans will drop out before 2nd dan, simply having reached that initial goal and realising that there's still a lot to do, but not so much of it is new and exciting. Once those people are weeded out, people who hang around for a couple years are pretty likely to be training 10 years later, provided personal circumstances don't move them somewhere where they can't train.

Cheers,

Tony

[sensei8]

ps1...Killer Miller...ROFLMBBO...now that's...FUNNY! Let us know if you get anybody that's serious in your offers...Hehehehehehehehehehee

[sensei8]

In my original school, at best a couple percent of students made first dan. Of those, locally, for a decade or so only the chief instructor was a 2nd dan. Our Korean 8th dan didn't like the idea of anyone else being senior enough in the eyes of the students and their families to look credible running their own gradings. Maybe 15 years after becoming the local chief instructor - with 20 dojang and 500 students under him, teaching 2-3 hours per day every night of the week and some weekends - he got to grade for 3rd dan, and afterwards a select few of the other instructors got a crack at 2nd dan. The chief instructor did then split off, but applied similar tactics: the best instructors were still 3rd dan after ~25 years, with the only way to 4th dan being heading off somewhere to become a chief instructor of another state....

More generally, in the large international taekwondo organisations it's generally expected that a reasonable talented and conscientious student will get to grade to 2nd dan after a year or two, to 3rd dan after two or three more, 4th dan after 3 or 4 etc.. This approach tends to keep people loyal, as they feel respected, even though any given dan can mean vastly different things in different places. Those supporting the school through teaching, and especially expanding the school into new areas, are most likely to be recognised. In such a system, I think it's likely that many of the 1st dans will drop out before 2nd dan, simply having reached that initial goal and realising that there's still a lot to do, but not so much of it is new and exciting. Once those people are weeded out, people who hang around for a couple years are pretty likely to be training 10 years later, provided personal circumstances don't move them somewhere where they can't train.

Cheers,

Tony

Very interesting to note...thanks for sharing it!

This causes me to think...outloud...What truely seperates a Shodan from a Nidan? Then, beyond that...What truely seperates a Shichidan from a Hachidan? Is it a new Kata? Is it tenure? Is it experience? Is it knowledge? Is it a little bit of each? Or alot of each?

Should a Hachidan be able to "beat" a Shodan/Nidan with ease?

Afterall, what truely does seperate a Nikyu from a Ikkyu? Or...A 10th kyu from a 9th kyu?

I've my own opinions on the above as well as I have the Shindokan By-Laws and the like for the formality that's required for its proper context.

But really!?!?!?! I believe that what seperates a Hachidan from a Shodan, for example, should be like day from night!

[Chuck]

Personally, I think those statistics should be improved upon... Therefore, I'm starting a website "MacKarateRanks.com" selling belt ranks.

Prices will be as follows:

White Belt - $10

Green Belt - $25

Brown Belt - $50 - $75 (Depending on the Kyu)

Shodan (General) - $350

Shodan (JKA) - $500

Nidan (General) - $1,000

Nidan (JKA) - $2,000

Sandan - Godan (General) - $4,000

Sandan - Godan (JKA) - $6,000

All other ranks will be sold in limited amounts and will be auctioned off to the highest bidders.

Package deals that includes all ranks and certificates up to Shodan (your choice of "General" or "JKA" certificates) will be offered for just $1,650!

All certificates signed by G. Funikoshi are an additional $5,000 (FREE Tokaido Gi and Black Belt pre-worn to white Included!).

Note: Resellers will get a 45% wholesale discount...!

Do your part to promote Karate and Go to MacKarateRanks.com NOW and work your way to becoming the pretigious rank of Black Belt!

No training required...

- Killer -

:0)

[wouldbemaster]

Killer miller this concept seems a natural evolution from our origional idea of being able to buy pre-worn black belts and I like it. Just one comment/suggestion of a potential improvement, I have seen examples of some who study chinese arts suggesting that chinese arts being better than japanese and japanese suggesting their arts are better than korean etc etc might I there for suggest that along with the certification being for a multiple style it also have signatures on it from 15th dans from all nations to ensure that no one can argue with the credibility on any certificate bought/I mean presented.

Could we also have a first come first served basis for the very senior grades so that we you end up with a organisational structure. This would show more structure and potential history to grades (I know this would be artifitial but anyone who didn;t know would be impressed when entering the site) also it might encourage quick take up in paying the extra for the higher grade.

Good luck.

[Killer Miller]

AUGUST SPECIAL - THIS MONTH ONLY!

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- MASTER OF ALL STYLES

- INCLUDES LESSONS ON FLOATING IN THE AIR

- FULL STAFF THAT WILL ASSINATE ANYBODY THAT SPEAKS YOUR NAME IN MORE THAN A WHISPER

- FULL BOOK SIGNING DEAL IN RANDOM PARODIES, SIMILIES, AND POETIC PHRASES THAT WILL TAKE 300 YEARS OF MIS-INTERPRETATION TO UNDERSTAND

- ALL HISTORY BOOKS WILL BE RE-WRITTEN TO REFLECT YOUR NEW STATUS AS MASTER

- ALSO INCLUDES TEA CEREMONY WITH THE POPE, BILL AND HILARY CLINTON, STEPHEN SEGAL AND SPECIAL APPEARANCE FROM JACKIE CHAN SINGING ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE BY THE BEATLES (STEPHEN SEGAL WILL PLAY GUITAR FOR JACKIE).

STARTING BIDS FOR THIS PACKAGE IS ONLY $1.2 BILLION!

ALL LOSING BIDDERS WILL BE ASSINATED BY THE NEW REGIME!

Your's Truly,

- President, MacKarateRanks.com -

[Fish]

But going back to the original question: it's not right to say that because only a small percentage do achieve dan grade, it follows that any individual karateka only has a small chance of being able to do so. It's the old statistical fallacy of correlation = causation. Personally, I think the majority of karateka could achieve shodan and above, but it is obviously a matter of perseverance, practice etc. The odds are not stacked against those that withdraw from training any more than against those who succeed.