Overuse of Kiai's!

[bushido_man96]

I've even seen competitors kiai very long and loudly when they adjust their uniform/belt...okie dokie!

Hehe, that's kind of funny.

Another thing that I see along these lines is the overuse of the word "Osu!"

[sensei8]

I've even seen competitors kiai very long and loudly when they adjust their uniform/belt...okie dokie!

Hehe, that's kind of funny.

Another thing that I see along these lines is the overuse of the word "Osu!"

Yeah, it's funny...and...it's embarrasing to see.

You've said a mouthful on the overuse of Osu. Wouldn't it be funny if Osu meant something unflatering rather than what it truly means? To say it without really and truly understanding it's intent is silly. We Westerners want to sound so authentic in our mannerisim and the like, therefore, just because we do a Japanese martial arts, it doesn't mean that we are Japanese or understand the Japanese culture.

[bushido_man96]

Very good points, Bob. I agree.

[Chuck]

In California or at least San Jose and the Bay Area most (actually all) of the Karate (Shotokan, Gojo-ryu, Shorin Ryu, etc) tournaments (that I've been to) are traditional.

Kata's can have only the allowed Kiai(s).

Kiai (the spirit yell) can also mean:

*a fighting yell

*a striking shout

*a focus puff of breath

*a focus shout from one's Spiritual Energy

(*definition taken from Karate Terms and Translations for Cornell Watson's Martial Arts Center Gojo Ryu Karate Do compiled by Bruce A. Brunger)

Yes, as others have said a Kiai should be short and loud.

IMO, one should not yell out KIAI!

The word KIAI actually means yell (a spirit yell*).

If I told you to yell, would you yell the word Yell?

Too many kids are yelling/saying KIAI instead of an actual yell.

[bushido_man96]

Too many kids are yelling/saying KIAI instead of an actual yell.

I think the reason for this is because it is easier to get kids to focus on yelling something in particular, as opposed to going into the long, drawn out explanations as to what a Kiai/Kihap entails. The problem with this is that they are never weaned from it, and learn the proper way to do it.

[karatedude]

haha, that's quite a nice observation. The overuse of kiai's started right around the same time XMA started becoming truly popular. I never understood it either.

As far as the traditional division. It's such a loose term these days. You can do forms that you created as long as they don't cross certain boundaries. You don't have to do a truly traditional kata anymore. I can't imagine what some judges would do if they saw someone do Naihanchi or even Koryo in the black belt division (I'm assuming we're talking open tournaments with traditional divisions where you'll get a good mix of Japanese, Korean, and Chinese arts). I really do think a move back to simplicity would be a nice thing. It'd have to start with people hosting truly traditional tournaments though with rules denoting that forms must be traditional in origin, and cannot be created. Taekwondo has this, because the AAU and USTU run all their tournaments that way, but Karate is somehow missing out. Maybe we should start a Traditional Karate Association of America?

Well, there are already traditional karate associations within America. For example: Japan Karate Association, International Shotokan Karate Federation, American Amateur Karate Federation, World Shotokan Karate Federation, USA-National Karate-do Federation. and the list goes on and on and on. Objectively speaking, the real problem are people within the more sporty side of karate -- such as NASKA -- who mislabel certain performances as "traditional" when they are not traditional.

Now, there's nothing wrong with NASKA karate. They are good at what they do -- flips spins twirls and kiai as if they were to find their wives sleeping with their brothers -- however that just can not be labeled as "traditional karate"

[Shizentai]

I've even seen competitors kiai very long and loudly when they adjust their uniform/belt...okie dokie!

>_< LMAO

Another thing that I see along these lines is the overuse of the word "Osu!"

lol YES! The worst part is that, having trained in Japan, I've been made very aware of my own overuse, and I am probably one of the quietest in my American dojo. I think the problem is that it becomes more of a reflex than an actual word to certain people.

Funny story, I was riding my bike on a sidewalk around my neighborhood and some >ahem< college students suddenly rounded the corner too sharply in a truck and hopped the curb, nearly running me over as they honked their horn frantically. For some reason, my reaction to this was to take a flying leap off my bike into some bushes screaming the lousest reflexive "OSSU!" I've ever heard in my life. I felt like such a dork getting back on my bike. I'm glad there was no one to witness that.

Personally, the thing I find most weird in traditional competitions (which is all I know really) is when I see someone scrunching up his/her face and acting ticked off the whole length of the kata. It's as if they're trying to broadcast "LOOK AT ME! I NEED MROE FIBER IN MY DIET!"

[rogue2257]

This has always been a huge pet peeve of mine. I remember seeing a video on Youtube awhile back (I looked again and it had disappeared) where the practitioner kiai-d for every single hand action that he did. It looked and sounded utterly awful.

I have to regularly explain to the kids in class why long long kiais are not necessarily better than short, spirited ones.

[FushinRyu]

well kiai could be just breathing. just not with voice. which is really coincidental because our shihan was just stressing this the other day and told us to breath through all of our moves because it puts our body in sync

[rogue2257]

well kiai could be just breathing. just not with voice. which is really coincidental because our shihan was just stressing this the other day and told us to breath through all of our moves because it puts our body in sync

I agree that breathing is vital. On the other hand, it shouldn't take the place of a kiai. Where as breathing is, as you said, partly to keep yourself in sync, kiai is a forceful shout demonstrating an explosive technique or power, whether in combat, kata, or kumite.

They are both important, but in very different ways. Like I mentioned earlier, when I saw a kata performed where every action was done with a kiai it looked and sounded ridiculous. The practitioner missed the point of why he should be doing his kiais.

Kiais should accompany the most powerful parts of a kata, or when doing a solid scoring technique in kumite, or even in combat as used to frighten or startle an opponent.