Wrist Grabs - DO they work Today?

[tallgeese]

Have I run into n expert in joint manipulations, no. Have I used them successfully, yes. Have I had them fail as well, you bet.

I agree wholeheartedly that women might face the wrist grab more than men. I think the logic blackxpress uses is sound. I can also say that I've been wresting with mopes before and ended up with my wrist grabbed as a result of the ensuing skirmish. Never intentionally I think, but by chance.

I can't honestly say that even in those circumstances I resorted to small going work. I think I by passed it and worked for arm control, don't recall right now really. But I still think that as a base for learning joint work that they are a good starting point.

[bushido_man96]

I've wondered the same thing myself, especially in my training time in Combat Hapkido, and now Aikido. What I have found is that it is a starting point, a training tool. The wrist grab allows the defender to see how to get to the points needed to manipulate the hand or arm into a lock, or for a takedown. The rank that I am currently at in Combat Hapkido, there are no "wrist grab attacks" in the curriculum; it is all lapel grabsl, shoulder grabs, etc. However, the mechanics and such that I have learned from the wrist grabs early on keep popping up in the techniques I do in the higher ranks.

Early on, one attacked with a wrist grab, the defender will often do a re-grab, in which the defender gains control of the attacker's wrist. This re-grab leads into the techniques that are done later on, which may start out as just seizing the attackers wrist when he grabs your shoulder, lapel, etc.

I also agree with tallgeese on the weapon control bit. Very important there. Another important aspect of such techniques is not to dally when you get them going. Get it done, and fast, before they get too much time to resist.

The crash points during conflict is also a good point. Hockheim talks about them, calling them "sticking points" in a fight; at times, you may get hold of a wrist. Then, you know what to do.

[bushido_man96]

As to if they were taught properly or not, Dobbersky, it's hard to tell without seeing how exactly they were taught. That being said, one of the major components to any small joint work is the idea of striking prior to drilling them. This sort of set up will make them much more functional.

I agree here, and this is a major component of Combat Hapkido. Seperate the mind from the body, etc. And if you get in a good strike first, they just might let go.

[BDPulver]

Had to think bout this awhile but after reading tallgeese and bushido I would have to agree with them.

We still teach wrist release and grabs and different scenarios where one might encounter such a grab. They are a good starting point for joint manipulation and getting the student to realize that MA is not all striking and kicking. It's true you might never run into a situation where someone would by chance grab your wrist but if you look at it on the other spectrum here.

For example, you know how to get out of one. You run into a situation where you might have to put one on a attacker. You already know the pro's and con's on which way is the best to control the situtation if it gets that far or maybe the encounter just started but you where able to apply it before they knew what happened.

Cross arm bars and such come to mind where a simple lock and quick joint manipulation comes in where you now control the individual. I know alot would question this but its one of those scenarios if you act and get it under control fast you now have the person in the wrist grab and since you know the releases you can place it in a way they cant release so y ou have them.

[sensei8]

Check out the latest Black Belt Magazine, issue September 2009, "Keep It Simple" by Terry L. Wilson, pages 100 - 102. As an Okinawan practitioner, I was glad to see the WRIST GRABS used in the many Tuite examples.

Does this prove anything? Yes/No!

YES: Shows that the wrists ARE grabbed/siezed, even though the Shinmei Shorin-ryu practitioner was initiating the wrists in the Tuite.

NO: No matter how much one is shown something, if someone is dead set against its effectiveness, nothing will change their mind.

My point is, if I have one, having your wrists grabbed/seized and/or you grabbing/seizing your attackers wrists DOES happen, Imho!

[joesteph]

Check out the latest Black Belt Magazine, issue September 2009, "Keep It Simple" by Terry L. Wilson, pages 100 - 102. As an Okinawan practitioner, I was glad to see the WRIST GRABS used in the many Tuite examples.

On p. 100, photo 2, I can't say that I'd use the same block he used (I think of open hand; he's looking to deliver a shock), but it has the same effect of allowing the wrist seize and controlling/pulling his opponent into the strike (p. 101, photo 4). Separately, on p. 101, there's the move to grab the wrist for the twist and takedown. In Soo Bahk Do, one of the more basic techniques is to seize the wrist and then three more moves, but as you go up the belt chain, you're shown how to do exactly this wrist/arm twist (just one move, not three) to down the opponent. (Efficient as well as effective.)

Comparing the two in the article, one is to pull the opponent into a "backfist as it slams against his temple, neck, or behind his ear"; the other doesn't require a strike (although you can kick, as in photo 3), in case you want to take your adversary down without hitting him. I'd opt for the latter if possible if dealing with a drunk instead of a mugger, especially if the police are called.

[sensei8]

Check out the latest Black Belt Magazine, issue September 2009, "Keep It Simple" by Terry L. Wilson, pages 100 - 102. As an Okinawan practitioner, I was glad to see the WRIST GRABS used in the many Tuite examples.

On p. 100, photo 2, I can't say that I'd use the same block he used (I think of open hand; he's looking to deliver a shock), but it has the same effect of allowing the wrist seize and controlling/pulling his opponent into the strike (p. 101, photo 4). Separately, on p. 101, there's the move to grab the wrist for the twist and takedown. In Soo Bahk Do, one of the more basic techniques is to seize the wrist and then three more moves, but as you go up the belt chain, you're shown how to do exactly this wrist/arm twist (just one move, not three) to down the opponent. (Efficient as well as effective.)

Comparing the two in the article, one is to pull the opponent into a "backfist as it slams against his temple, neck, or behind his ear"; the other doesn't require a strike (although you can kick, as in photo 3), in case you want to take your adversary down without hitting him. I'd opt for the latter if possible if dealing with a drunk instead of a mugger, especially if the police are called.

That's the bueaty of any Oyo Bunkai; there are NO boundaries!