Karate Schools today...

[Throwdown0850]

Great post, Brian.

Yeah, these kids are great, but I think we are looking at the extremes on both ends here.

And, to be fair (you sort of eluded to this), you can do the same thing to adults. It doesn't take much to find a video of an adult practicing martial arts in what you would consider "bad" and then one that you would consider "great."

Patrick

agreed. its not just limited to kids.

[skullsplitter]

My son is almost 9. He started at his school at 4 and received his black belt at 8. There were about 17 kids that started within 3 months of him. I think 5 of those 17 have their blackbelts, 2 more are testing this week for theirs, and 2 others are eligible to test but are not ready yet. The rest have dropped our without earning it. I don't know what the percentages are for attaing a black belt, but our school seems to have a good balance of not being so hard that kids do not stay and learn and also not being so easy that everyone that comes through the door gets a black belt. There are no testing fees or belt fees so I also do not think that money is the sole purpose with our teacher.

It does get much harder to earn the 2nd and 3rd degrees belts. There was one 3rd degree bestowed this year and I think she said it was only the 4th or 5th she had awarded over her 25 years of instruction.

Our school does alot to keep everyone (kids and adults) interested without watering down the instruction. A Masters class is offered for a small fee. Each 3 month session concentrates on something outside of the normal classes such as a weapon or a different MA (Judo, Kung Fu, XMA). Near the time of school starting a large part of the focus for kids is self defense rather than kata. So there are ways to keep things fresh without making it easy.

[Patrick]

Thanks for jumping in, skullsplitter. It's good to hear the perspective of a martial artist AND parent of a young student.

[samwisekoi]

They have a mentally handicapped brown belt that I've seen at tournaments before. It's obvious this man has a mental issue. My instructor approached me to inform me of his handicap, he also stated that this man has before lost control and attacked other people. To what extent I didn't indulge in, but he told me to be prepared that if the guy has a mental breakdown to be prepared to witness or participate in taking him down.

So let me ask you. Should this man ever reach black belt? I can tell you his bo staff performance is on par, nothing spectacular but nothing below average. He seems socially adequate, and apparently has had self control issues. I don't believe this man has ever taught anybody an aspect of the Martial Arts, but I may be wrong.

Say this man finds himself in an altercation. What if he breaks down and can't defend himself? What if he truly unleashes his karate but in the process kills someone where that level of force wasn't suited?

So while this man may sit at brown belt forever, I don't think I would give him a black belt. It's not his handicap, but his mental state. I realize what I just said seems completely out of whack. Let's assume he had no mental disability, yet all of the above still pertained. I will still hold this man at brown belt.

It's all about standards. Whether it's Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, whatever it is there should be standards. They are standards that once existed, but in recent decades have died out. Say these standards were brought back to every single school in the US. You would see a hell of a lot less Martial Artists, and black belts. Those who you did see at black belt wouldn't be the average person.

So while all in all at times it seems unfair, or harsh, or inhumane, hopefully I have given my insight on the issue without offending anybody. No where do I want you to think handicapped people can't be Martial Artists, but I do think they need to be set at standards, and when we bring black belt into the picture, especially then, standards shouldn't be lowered. My above story is factual, and just an example.

I have a 10YO son with an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), and one of the best therapies is Martial Arts training. Exercise, respect, self-control, self-defense against bullying and a very predictable environment where important people are literally color-coded. He did some foo-foo Wushu at a McDojo for a while, then I got him into a more structured and traditional program at another school very close to my office so he can go after school and I can bring him home. It is working out well for him; he has his orange belt now and has absolutely memorized the elements needed for his next test.

So this is very good for him, but as is true of the individual mentioned above, people with ASD can become aggressive if confused or over-stimulated by a situation. His doctors say the best thing in that situation is to remove other children from the area and wait for the individual to calm down.

So the training is good for him, but if he progresses far enough, and gets big enough, it could become a risk.

My take on the situation is that one does not "get" a black belt, one "becomes" a black belt. And it is much, much more than the techniques that are the key.

My answer to the question is to focus on the mental, spiritual and self-control aspect of the Art from the beginning. I expect that by the time he is 18 or so, he will have learned enough technique, but that the key to him earning that black belt is his ability to demonstrate a deep understanding of the tenets of the art and an ability to control himself in all circumstances. And it seems to me that well-supervised matches are good places to learn those skills; far better than when confronted by a bully because he looks or acts "different".

To return to the actual topic, I agree that black belts should be given as the mark of someone who has gained the wisdom to properly control the techniques in all circumstances.

Humbly,

- Sam

[sensei8]

samwisekoi and skullsplitter,

Thank you for your posts...extremely SOLID! Tremendous value! I bow to the both of you!

Welcome to KF, the both of you!

[Patrick]

Welcome samwisekoi. Thanks for sharing.

[Blackbelt 1400]

I think many of these studios are being pulled apart by the economy. Whether they should remain a "traditional" school or a "profitable" school. I think we need to realize that it's very difficult to balance the two of them.

As a personal example, the old owner of my karate studio was one of the strictest, most traditional, and best instructor I've ever had. Why is he my old owner? He couldn't keep his school going being so strict and traditional. People dont want to be conditioned to be the best, they want to be helped, pampered, and walked through everything. My new studio is much more family-oriented, very personal, and becoming more and more modern each year. We're also incredibly profitable.

I wouldn't call one studio 'crap' compared to another, but there are definitely differences in the tendencies of the owner of the schools

[sensei8]

While making a profit is the bottom line of any business, including the martial arts, integrity should never be replaced or substituted or sold. This integrity can be labeled as "traditional" and/or "profitable", but, neither is more important than integrity.

People dont want to be conditioned to be the best, they want to be helped, pampered, and walked through everything.

I'd close my doors first before I'd "sell" my integrity. People want to be helped? That's fine. People want to be pampered? That's fine also. People want to be walked through everything? That's fine too. BUT, NOT at the cost of my integrity! Yes, there's a fine line in everything. Who's willing to cross that fine line from having integrity to not having integrity? I'm not! What, for the sake of profit? Not I! Repect change, expect change, acknowledge change, prepare for the inevitable change, and then move with the change. But, I won't sell my integrity for the change!!! "Then you'll be out of business!" Fine! That's better than not being able to sleep at night because I sold my integrity.

Tradition AND profit DO go hand in hand because as I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not all black belts can teach! They've not had to close their schools because they're too strict or too traditional or both. No! They closed their school door because they CAN'T teach. There excellent martial artists, but, it takes more than that to teach. Is there a fine line? Not really, imho that's an excuse, because, either one can or one can't. Those who can, do and should! Those who can't, don't and shouldn't!

If the student doesn't want to be able to effectively defend themselves, this is NOT fine with me. The by-product of making a profit no matter what produces students that CAN'T honestly defend themselves. These students are provided a false sense of security when their pampered and walked through everything. This can be avoided, and this is accomplished by knowing how to teach across the board!

Before I came to the Hombu, I had a very successful dojo. I had well over 300 students. I was strict! I was traditional! Yet at the same time, I was profitable! I didn't lie to my students or to myself! I didn't promote them UNLESS they earned it! My students and I had fun and enjoyed each other at the same time while we're sweating our backsides off. Yes, my dojo was/is a business and at my dojo the customer is very important, but, the customer isn't always right and the customer isn't my boss. If they want something, then EARN IT! Respect is a two way street and whenever a customer wants me to respect them and they don't want to respect me. Well, it's time for that customer to go somewhere else! Don't demand anything from me...ask me!

At the Hombu, it's the same thing and the Hombu has twice as many students as my old dojo and the numbers continue to escalate even in todays economy. Consistency is key. Students recognize that and students want that and students expect that from their instructor(s)/school.

If students/customers are truly seeking knowledge, then they're welcomed, but, if they're truly seeking an easy way, then they're not welcomed. To accel in the martial arts, one must be willing to work at it hard, and this hard work comes with a sacrifice. But, the rewards are many and the rewards are great for those who want to honestly learn it by earning it every step of the way.

So, if student/customers want something, even in these trying economic days, then at my dojo/Hombu, they're going to have to get it the old fashioned traditional way...EARN IT!!!

I'll close the Hombu faster than they can even blink before I will sell my integrity or Shindokan. And if I do close, fine, but, it'll be on my terms and on my terms alone. Should that happen...I've always wanted to work at Wal-Mart as a door greeter whenever I retire!

[ironsifu]

i think its more than just saying, there is no market for traditional teachers. its more of, how to help the serious student find you.

since we like to say, mc dojos, let's use hamburger.

some people want a good burger. they want best quality beef, good vegetables, nice atmosphere... and they know for this kind of burger you gotta pay. then you have the guy who's broke, or he's hecka hungry, and he just wants to eat.

you sell the 99 cents burger to the broke guy, but you don't offer your $10 burger to him. and you definitely dont try to sell a 99c burger to the guy who wants to eat grown-up food instead of a happy meal.

in the business of martial arts, we have to find the kind of people who want our kind of martial arts. if schools are losing students i woudnt blame the master, saying he's teaching too hard. maybe he just signed up the wrong kind of student for his kind of training.

that said, i think hard core karate will make a comeback (shamelss plug, i have an article about it on my website) because of loyota michida. every martial arts has his day, and if we start seeing more traditional karate men in the octogon, more people will run to the hardcore dojos.

i think every martial arts style has its place. the problem is when a school claims there hard core, then offers monkey dragon karate for 5 year olds. or when the daycare karate place next to safeway starts to advertise MMA classes (lol). the hard part for the school owner is to find a way to advertise the kind of school he runs.

[sensei8]

that said, i think hard core karate will make a comeback (shamelss plug, i have an article about it on my website) because of loyota michida. every martial arts has his day, and if we start seeing more traditional karate men in the octogon, more people will run to the hardcore dojos.

I surely don't want to run a hardcore dojo, I want to run an operationally solid dojo that's teaching effective techniques! I don't think that Loyota Michida and the like in the octagon is essential to see the resurge of students to ones school. What's needed is instructors that CAN teach!

in the business of martial arts, we have to find the kind of people who want our kind of martial arts. if schools are losing students i woudnt blame the master, saying he's teaching too hard. maybe he just signed up the wrong kind of student for his kind of training.

I'm a firm believer that part of the biggest problem is that the instructor(s) can't teach! Sorry, but, that's what I see, imho!