Karate Schools today...

[bushido_man96]

check out this kid good kime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4DF8kyQKsw

This little girl's wearing a white belt...

Yeah, these kids are great, but I think we are looking at the extremes on both ends here. I'd say these kids are close to being MA prodigies; not many kids are going to be able to attain that level. Hell, there are probably some adults that are going to be able to achieve that level of physical ability and skill (comparatively speaking).

We look at these kids and think "wow, they are phenomenal!" Then, think about what they will be like as adults; "wow, more phenomenal!" They can only get better with age, right? So, is that standard for a black belt? Only the phenomenal ones? I would be willing to guess that the most of us that post here wouldn't consider many of our abilities to be "phenomenal." I know I am not. Does that mean that we cannot be black belts, either? I don't think so.

Lots of kids (in America, anyways) will grow up playing (American) football. They can start when they are around 8, I think. And some will play into middle school, and into high school, and some will get into colleges and play. Put only a small percentage will be "phenomenal," and make it into the professional level, and make the big money for their skills. Everyone else will be relegated to playing on a recreational level. Is this how we are to view the Martial Arts, and attaining the rank of black belt, as well?

no one is doing what they are being paid to do... train and teach students properly.

Someone is out there doing it. I agree that not everyone is, but to say that no one is, is a bit extreme.

[ironsifu]

Someone is out there doing it. I agree that not everyone is, but to say that no one is, is a bit extreme.

i didnt mean this literally, of course, since i am teaching that would mean i am doing it too.

but i am saying that most of the teachers out there are doing a poor job. average black belters use to be very good compared today. what i see today (that represents "good" black belts) are gymnasts. its disgusting. a lot of these teachers do not have much to teach, and do not know HOW to teach, so for "advance" martial arts, they add things from other styles, gymnastics, capoeira, break dancing, etc. last saturday at a tournament here in town, i saw a guy do a MOONWALK in the kata division. not just that, but he placed. at the same tournament, i saw a flawless shotokan master named shaked (from philadelphia) who lives in california now, get a second place behind a completely made up, lousy basics form. but the guy who won, is a regular and brought a lot of students, where mr shaked only brought himself.

back to the point. i was waiting for someone to say that the kids in the video are the exception. thats not true. its the exception if you compare to the rest of the community, but if you look in the schools they are from, most of their students look like them. its the teacher. here in CA, we have schools, entire schools, where the average black belter looks like that. if you dont believe me, attend japanese karate tournaments, and look at the average competitors. child prodigy, is an excuse for allowing poor karate to be the rule. if students are taught right, they all look like child prodigy. take for example a group called SKIF in the philippines. every single child black belt i have seen from this school is very, very good.

there is a saying, that perfection does not exist to the artist who is not capable of it. this is like the saying, if you think you can, you probably will. if you think you cannot, you never will.

[Ti]

What would you say these guys should rank?

In our school these kids would stay at 1st kyu (brown) for a long long long long long time.

Beginners!

This little girl's wearing a white belt...

wait......why does a white belt know bassai dai.......

Anyhow, these kids are SHARP. And seriously, these kids are probably REALLY trained, they aren't run of the mill kids.

[sensei8]

Students reflect the Sensei; either, is good or, is bad!

...take for example a group called SKIF in the philippines. every single child black belt i have seen from this school is very, very good.

These child black belts reflect the good because Kanazawa Sensei is good. In that, every instructor and every student in SKIF is good. Kanazawa Sensei wouldn't have it any other way because it would reflect negatively on him.

Imho, if you see students of the martial arts that look bad, then watch the Sensei, he/she probably looks just as bad.

Does most, of if not all, of the blame go to the organization for allowing this in their student body? Yes, imho! The organization is suppose to be governing the entire style, including, how the style is represented by its student body, including their Sensei's. Simply stated...if the organization's bad, then the students are bad because the Sensei's are bad.

Do I fault the students? No. Not if they don't know any better because this is how they were taught. To these students, they think that they're solid across the board, but, when in reality, they're not even close.

IMHO!!!!

[ninjanurse]

All the kids are wearing white belts....my guess is that they are not. Puts them all on equal ground as far as judging technique.

[Patrick]

Great post, Brian.

Yeah, these kids are great, but I think we are looking at the extremes on both ends here.

And, to be fair (you sort of eluded to this), you can do the same thing to adults. It doesn't take much to find a video of an adult practicing martial arts in what you would consider "bad" and then one that you would consider "great."

Patrick

[wouldbemaster]

Just read the posts with interest. Whilst those of you who know me will know my vies on jr dan grades etc can I just make the point that it is not karate clubs per say that are the problem all martial arts in particular those who rely on membership and grading fees to keep going can fall into the ame issue. It is down to the instructor not the art. I invite the person who started this post to visit my dojo, which is a karate doo, to train and see first hand that not all karate clubs are crap.

PS I am always interested by those who protest the loudest.

[ironsifu]

Students reflect the Sensei; either, is good or, is bad!

These child black belts reflect the good because Kanazawa Sensei is good. In that, every instructor and every student in SKIF is good. Kanazawa Sensei wouldn't have it any other way because it would reflect negatively on him.

Imho, if you see students of the martial arts that look bad, then watch the Sensei, he/she probably looks just as bad.

Does most, of if not all, of the blame go to the organization for allowing this in their student body? Yes, imho! The organization is suppose to be governing the entire style, including, how the style is represented by its student body, including their Sensei's. Simply stated...if the organization's bad, then the students are bad because the Sensei's are bad.

Do I fault the students? No. Not if they don't know any better because this is how they were taught. To these students, they think that they're solid across the board, but, when in reality, they're not even close.

IMHO!!!!

true, true and TRUE!

i agree with everythink you said brother. its all boils down to this, is the instructor a QUALIFIED instructor. just cause you have on the costume, doesnt make you qualified. you can put the whole roll of tape on your black belts, add 7 more patches, and get 2 more tatoos, your art is still going to depend on your skill. teachers who know, teach, and those who don't know, "cross train". you cannot add to poor skill and make it good, it takes learning from a good teacher and then training hard.

that is a very simple concept, but so difficult for many teachers to understand. they believe good martial arts is for the masses. it's not. it's for the people who want to learn, and are willing to do what they need to do to learn.

and like you said, hopefully they walked into the right school.

[bushido_man96]

i was waiting for someone to say that the kids in the video are the exception. thats not true. its the exception if you compare to the rest of the community, but if you look in the schools they are from, most of their students look like them.

That's great. I'm glad that there are schools out there like that.

child prodigy, is an excuse for allowing poor karate to be the rule.

I never said that "child prodigy" is an excuse. What I am saying is that not every child has the same talent level, nor are all children capable of the same things. Nor do I think that all children should be awarded black belts, either. However, I do think that those shown in the threads here are exceptional students, and not every child is going to be achieving that level of skill that early. I think that they can get closer to it, but some children will take longer to get there than others.

[Ti]

What would you say these guys should rank?

In our school these kids would stay at 1st kyu (brown) for a long long long long long time.

Looks like a train wreck.