Katas vary from school to school?

[NewLevel]

Hey guys...do katas vary from school to school?

Like for example...this week in my class my instructor showed me my first kata which was Naihanchi...which he told me was really a brown belt level but he said he would teach more since we have a small class.

Since Naihanchi is brown belt level....and I'm a white belt...is this possible since it's a different school and each dojo is unique to teach higher ranked forms on a lower level?

Not having any doubts about my teacher cause he's humble, very knowledgable and teaching for free...I'm just trying to wrap my head around everything since I'm new. Thanks!

[Dobbersky]

I can understand your Sensei's theory behind teaching you Naihanchi (Tekki Shodan for Shotokan) It was the first kata taught to Funakoshi Sensei, the father of "modern karate" He spent 9 years on the kata perfecting it and getting the bunkai on it correct too. It is a simple but extreme kata to learn it looks easy but it is so hard to get right. the feet, the arms the twisting etc.

A good example of this is in James Bond "Casino Royale" James bond uses Naihanchi (Tekki) to fight the guy on the crane.

Good Luck on your journey

Remember you have a 1:10,000 of becoming a Shodan (blackbelt) so I hope the you are the 1.

Osu!!!!

[sensei8]

Hey guys...do katas vary from school to school?

That's an understatement! Kata's do, but, they should and they shouldn't. Huh?

"Traditionalists" instructors will keep the Kata's the same within the style through and through. Nothing, for example, will be changed from one Shotokan Dojo to another

"Non-Traditionalists" instructors will change the Kata's as they see fit based on the preferences of that instructor.

Example....ABKA founder Denny Holzbauer, Judan, uses the Heian Kata's in his ABKA, BUT, he made changes to each of them to be unique to his style that he founded. His background: 7th Degree Black Belt (Sichidan) Sei Bu Kan Shoto-Kan and 5th Degree Black Belt (Godan) Kyokushin-Kai Kan.

Is either right? I don't know; ask them! Their answers shouldn't surprise you.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Hey guys...do katas vary from school to school?

That's an understatement! Kata's do, but, they should and they shouldn't. Huh?

"Traditionalists" instructors will keep the Kata's the same within the style through and through. Nothing, for example, will be changed from one Shotokan Dojo to another

"Non-Traditionalists" instructors will change the Kata's as they see fit based on the preferences of that instructor.

Example....ABKA founder Denny Holzbauer, Judan, uses the Heian Kata's in his ABKA, BUT, he made changes to each of them to be unique to his style that he founded. His background: 7th Degree Black Belt (Sichidan) Sei Bu Kan Shoto-Kan and 5th Degree Black Belt (Godan) Kyokushin-Kai Kan.

Is either right? I don't know; ask them! Their answers shouldn't surprise you.

Shu ha ri ?

WNM

[sensei8]

Shu ha ri ?

Absolutely! After all, I believe that that's exactly what we're talking about. Why? Because 'it' is the overall progression of martial arts training, as well as the lifelong relationship the student will enjoy with his or her instructor.

Edited July 3, 2009 by sensei8

[Wa-No-Michi]

As far as the order you learn Kata in, I guess its a case of some schools do it in a specific order - as "pre-ordaned" by their group, whilst others are more relaxed, and occasionally jump forward and backward a little.

I will do the latter from time to time - and if I feel like teaching Naihanchi kata and there is a white belt in the class, I will teach it to him/her also.

Thing is though, a white belt won't get Naihanchi, because they don't have the basic tools to understand it. So, no disrespect intended NewLevel, but it whilst it was an interesting look into the future for you (and ok on the odd occasion) it would be wrong of your instructor to focus purely on teaching you Naihanchi at your stage of learning. He/she would be doing you no favours.

Then of course there is "Shu-ha-ri" - in that two instructors are unlikely to teach the same kata identically, as they will be at different developmental stages (and levels of understandinging) themselves.

Karate clubs are organic, as are instructors, students and styles - they are always growing and developing....this is the shu-ha-ri of things. So it stands to reason that kata is going to be taught differently in this respect also.

WNM

[NewLevel]

He did mention it was the first kata taught to Funakoshi in the past. Something too about it was originally taught as if your back was against a wall or in a tight place like a small hallway.

The senior student is also a brown belt, so he was going over the form with him and wanted to teach me as well. He's half traditionist/non-traditionalist and I'm sure he will teach me the other basic katas as well. After all that, we're going to apply the forms to bunkai.

I thought it was amazing when they showed me some of how the kata is applied to bunkai. The old masters were geniuses!

Our class size is 6+ people, so basically we get an intimate learning experience which is great.

[bushido_man96]

Katas do tend to have variances from place to place, so it is something to be expected. Right or wrong, I don't know.

I do think it odd that your instructor taught you a brown belt level kata as a white belt, but, as mentioned, it may be just a one-time thing, and afterwards, he may take you back to the earlier katas.

[mudansha]

Is each kata different based on school?

I would say that each kata is different based on the person. Due to body mechanics, each karateka will have certain strengths and weaknesses. As such, certain facets of the kata are emphasized in certain people and not in others.

Many times, the big differences will be in which organization the dojo is affiliated with. Our dojo was SKIF for many years so as such, we emphasize the teachings of Kanazawa sensei. Some of our students were JKA and apparently, when Kanazawa left JKA, he changed a few things. A couple of the katas have slight differences, and the Kihon Ippon, Jiyu ippon, and kihon katas of SKIF are completely different than JKA.

Even Funakoshi's students broke off in two different areas. The Style Shotokai share the same katas as shotokan but they are performed completely different. Throughout time, as masters break away, they add their own style to the art. After several splits over 50-100 years, the styles that emerge are completely different.

This is the variance found in all martial arts. The most basic of this variance is found in the subtle differences that each karateka puts into his kata. After all, none of us are robots.

[bushido_man96]

Throughout time, as masters break away, they add their own style to the art. After several splits over 50-100 years, the styles that emerge are completely different.

This is the variance found in all martial arts. The most basic of this variance is found in the subtle differences that each karateka puts into his kata. After all, none of us are robots.

This is true, and I have noticed differences like this in my TKD practice. In reading the encyclopedia and books by Cho, I notice differences between the forms they did, and the ones that I do now, even though they are the "same" forms.