Pain, injury and karate questions

[nooob]

Today I had my first lesson in Shotokan karate and we did basic kihon like stance, punching, low kick. Then we got into bag work and by the end both my second knuckles were bleeding and my skin was torn off. I am generally a wussy guy with low pain tolerance so I have a few questions.

I am wondering if aches and pains are just a part of Shotokan karate and you just have to put up with it if you do it? Do I have to accept that I will get injured sometime if I continue with Shotokan karate? Are injuries inevitable?

For example with this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGP0AM14F0 , you see guys getting hit in the head and getting concussed. Are these things just a part of life in Shotokan karate? If I am such a wuss, should I just quit now?

I really don't like hurting other people so I hate hitting other people and injuring them. But from the looks of kumite, it looks as if hitting others is part of Shotokan karate. I basically just want to learn some self-defence - I don't want to hit people who are not my enemies. Is my thinking wrong? Why do you need to hit innocent people and risk injuries in kumite?

[tallgeese]

The bleeding knuckles can probably be attributed to slightly incorrect form due to your striking surface being off a bit. Your trainer ought to be able to work with you to correct it. Stuff like that's to be expected early on. In time, you'll stop having little incidental injuries like that.

Here's to the bigger question about getting hurt and hurting people. Sparring levels and general contact drills will be different from school to school. To see where you're heading, check out the advanced ranks and see the kinds of contact they're using. It's a good indicator of what you'll be expected to do.

I differ from alot of people on this next part. I accept that injury is part of training physical, hands-on skills. You, and more importantly your instructor, should work to limit this but the risk is still present. It's part of the cost of doing business in this field. Training partners shouldn't be trying to kill each other every drill, but contact happens. This is especially true of higher levels with full or high resistance movements are used by your partner. Again, we seek to minimize, but we can never fully mitigate that reality.

As to hitting training partners, well, that's just kind of necessary at some level. We learn, in large part, by doing. If you're training to do sd, then in some way you'll need to hit the bad guy. To train realistically, at some point you'll need to hit your training partner. And he'll need to hit you.

This is also imperative to developing a warrior mindset. It's easy to say you'll do such and such in the street, but if you haven't conditioned by at least partially doing such actions during training you're not going to be wired to on the street. We don't rise to the occasion, we sink to the level of our training. I wish I could remember who said that.

All of training is, in some way, or should be, related back to prepping for combat. By not repping on live opponents, at least in a simulated manner (how many of us really want to rake each others eyes) you're going to miss the major function of ma's.

Does that mean you should quite now? Of course not, first off, you'll be amazed at how being part of ma's will change your mindset and worldview. Even if you don't think you can do it now, give it a year. You just don't know.

Second up, you might find that you want to focus on some other aspect of the ma's. That's fine too, it's no less legitimate of a pursuit than sd, just be willing to admit it and train for what you want and you will make the most of it.

Try sticking it out and see how things go. Keep us posted.

[joesteph]

Today I had my first lesson in Shotokan karate and we did basic kihon like stance, punching, low kick. Then we got into bag work and by the end both my second knuckles were bleeding and my skin was torn off.

The only time I've skinned my knuckles--both hands--was from repeatedly doing a "speedbag" (like boxers do) series of punches against BOB ("Body Opponent Buddy"), hitting the face repeatedly. I was hitting a rough surface (nose-to-chin) and not stopping when I should have. My fault. I knew better.

How closely were you being watched by your sensei? Perhaps there's something incorrect in the way you're striking the heavy bag, or its surface is rough, like some bags that have a clothlike covering over them. If you need bag gloves, they're inexpensive and can be ordered by your sensei, or you can go online to order an inexpensive pair from Century or AWMA (Asian World of Martial Arts). When I speedbag BOB now, I use inexpensive cloth hand guards I got from Century. No more skinned knuckles. And let your sensei know about your knuckles, so that you don't return to the bag until they're healed.

I am wondering if aches and pains are just a part of Shotokan karate and you just have to put up with it if you do it?

I don't practice Shotokan per se, but whether someone practices a martial art, skis, or lifts weights, whenever you do something physical, aches and pains do occur. It's amazing how the body becomes acclamated to the demands of the activity, and how we learn to train smarter, so that we minimize after-effects.

For example with this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGP0AM14F0 , you see guys getting hit in the head and getting concussed.

This is a tournament. You need not enter any. The participants are also not wearing protective gear, such as to protect the head or torso. Ask your sensei about sparring in your dojo. It'll be lighter contact with fellow students, certainly not KOs to win a trophy, and don't be surprised if your sensei insists on protective gear, even if it's light-as-a-tap kumite. Remember, too, that you're just starting out; you're a white belt, and higher belts will tone sparring down to a well-controlled level. It's part of their responsibility.

I really don't like hurting other people so I hate hitting other people and injuring them. . . . I basically just want to learn some self-defence - I don't want to hit people who are not my enemies. Is my thinking wrong?

Good martial artists avoid conflicts while being able to defend themselves against those whose morals are lacking. Your thinking is sound.

BTW, What made you choose Shotokan, Nooob? Did a friend or relative make a recommendation? Does the school have a good reputation in your town? Did you watch a class or two first? Did you participate in a class before signing up?

[nooob]

Thanks for the help. I think I'll get some wraps for the next class. I haven't seen what the sparring is like so I'll have to take a look sometime.

BTW, What made you choose Shotokan, Nooob?

It was the closest karate school to me. I don't know much about the different styles of karate so I hope I made the right choice.

[bushido_man96]

Aches and pains come from doing any physical activity; MA practice is no different. There will be times when you will be sore. As you progress, your body will get used to what you are doing, and it will be more passing.

I do agree with tallgeese, in that there should be some levels of contact when training in the Martial Arts. I can understand that you don't want to hit people you like, and I think that is a sound judgement. As a white belt, I don't expect that you will be diving into the type of sparring that your link showed. Your instructor will bring you along, as he sees you are fit to be taught. At higher levels, the sparring may get more intense, but that is ok; it shows you are advancing.

Best of luck, and stick with it.

[Dobbersky]

I'm not Shotokan, but I do practice Ashihara which is Kyokushin based. So if you are new to the "conditioning" I would have made sure you did it less vigorously. When your knuckles have healed I always found personally that pressups (this also strengthens the wrists too) on the knuckles and gently tapping walls etc with your fist (just so it makes the minimal amount of contact) will gradually increase the fibrous texture of your skin around your knuckles. Note it does not make you immune to splitting the skin but it gives a bit more resistance.

[ShoriKid]

Aches and pains are a normal part of starting any new physical activity. As you progress, what caused you to be sore before won't. And the tings you couldn't do, you will, but you'll be sore.

Dobbersky has the right of it in doing knuckle push ups once your hands have healed. If you were hitting an old style canvas bag, they can be rough without hand wraps or bag gloves. A good square strike will be something you learn to do and your knuckles won't suffer nearly so much.

Now, tallgeese hit on this a bit. If your training for self defense, you are going to have to hit and be hit at some point. Your going to get dinged and banged up a bit. That is the nature of any sort of training that involves combat or self defense. If you have a good instructor, the introduction to it will be gradual. You'll start with very light, controled contact and work your way up, both giving and receiving. Noob, I don't like hurting people. I enjoy hard training where we make contact though. When I'm hitting a person when we drill or spar, It is never my aim to hurt them. I am simply applying my technique. And while I'm careful not to injure someone, getting hurt happens. I don't do it maliciously though. I do it with the intent to improve both myself and my training partner.

Also, always remember this. There is, to me at least, a difference between "injured" and "hurt". "Hurt" is what I expect to be. A sore spot on my thigh from a kick, a black eye or bloodied nose. When I'm sore the morning after, I know it was a good, hard workout. I take my ibuprofine and roll on. "Injured" means I can't train. It means I'm either going to the doctor or nursing something that can't really be fixed by the doc like broken ribs. Something broken, something torn or dislocated is an injury. And someday, they will happen. Again, as long as it's not malicious, it's fine with me. I don't want them to happen, but they could. I could also fall down the stairs at work on the way to lunch and break both legs. Wouldn't be on purpose, but I'd be in a cast all the same.

Don't worry about worry about hitting people. A had a very close friend and private student, who I eventually talked into joining the regular class, who was gunshy about hitting to the head. The body he didn't mind, but hitting the head bothered him a lot and he would pull his punches. I told him it was okay, go ahead and hit me. It took months of me hanging my head out there for shots before he finally got comfortable enough to hit me in the face. I've seen other poeple who just aren't agressive when they start training. They just aren't by nature. It is something they can learn to do though. We have some very laid back and non-agressive guys in the dojo. When we put gloves on though, the more experienced ones are very good fighters who just keep coming when you hit them, scamble hard on the ground and crack you good working technique.

You don't have to be a violent or agressive person to train. You just have to develope a level of comfort and mindset that allows you to train. If it bothers you to hit someone when your supposed to, remember this. If your not hitting them, your cheating them of

their training.

[bushido_man96]

If your not hitting them, your cheating them of

their training.

I think that this is the big miss here. No one on the street is going to pull a punch, and when your classmate gets attacked, and doesn't realize what it takes to stop a committed blow, thats when MAists start wondering "why it didn't work right."