How can I increase speed and accuracy as a bigger guy?

[bushido_man96]

Maybe i was misunderstood.

I never meant to say that building a strong body is a disadvantage in martial arts. What i say is that building a massive body turns you in a big, slow piece of meat. Neither Bruce Lee nor Mas Oyama were massive, although Oyama was a quite big man himself. Power lifting is a good way of training but only for increasing strength and stamina - not muscle mass.

Actually, I power lifting does tend to build muscle mass, just not as toned up as a body builder would be. Also, I don't think there is actual proof that building a massive body is building a slow body. I think that there is a common misconception that big people are slow people, and this just isn't the case. Even if someone is big and strong, like a body builder, they can still train to be fast. Also, keep in mind that one's ability be fast is due in large part to the amount of fast-twitch muscle fibers one is genetically endowed with.

Football players are a good example of how big, strong, muscular people can be strong and fast. Many NFL caliber offensive lineman, weighing in the neighborhood of 300 lbs, can still run a 40 yard dash in around 5 seconds. Then, they bench press 225 lbs between 20 and 30 times. You can also watch some of the drills that linemen do with their hands, because they have to use their hands so much in their blocking techniques.

Sumo wrestlers are another example to look at. Even though they don't look like they are strong, and look unhealthy due to their size, most of them are extremely flexible, and their hands are fast, too.

So, as you can see from these examples, there is more proof that weight training in various capacities is actually a boon MA training, as opposed to a drawback.

[Killer Miller]

I partially agree with what you are saying, but primarily disagree. I've seen it over and over in mass quantities and I've yet seen a truly good example. There is general body building that still allows flexibility and agility. But "too often" body builders are always thinking "upper body" for everything and not "the entire body." If they could get over the concept of "upper body," then they might get somewhere in their training for speed and agility.

Technically speaking, a body builder would be 3-times the karate-ka and a non-body builder. However, realistically this is not the case due to the mental aspect of overcoming the "upper body" strength for everything they do...

- Killer -

[Wa-No-Michi]

Interesting thread.

I read an essay recently about body size and how it effects your Karate.

Basically the premise was this:

In Okinawa/Japan where karate (or arts from which derive from Karate) was borne, most techniques were developed to prevail against home grown enemies - of a very similar size and shape.

In the west (take for example medieval Europe) enemies came in very different sizes to you and still do!

Food for thought maybe? - particularly for the traditionalist!

With regard to size/weight and affective karate my brain thinks like this - as well as the bloke(s) standing in front of you, you have another enemy in gravity, and its all about beating that one - so you can get on with the task in hand.

Therefore, I tend to work on drills that allow me to beat gravity as best I can and get lighter on my feet.

WNM

[Kuma]

Actually, it's most men that lift recreationally that think just upper body. I see it often: the fairly muscular upper body combined with a pair of chicken legs. Not good for much of anything.

However, once you get into the realm of serious strength training for sports, you will see how it is nothing but beneficial. For anyone who doubts how weight training can improve your flexibility, balance, and overall body strength, I always tell them to try out an overhead squat.

[Killer Miller]

Although you make a good point, and most serious competitive weight lifters don't do karate in the first place. But, I've still seen only one or two that fit the profile you are describing and be able to hold his own. Also, when I say what I've seen, I would be refering to a comparison of wieght lifters vs. US and International competition levels.

And even saying that, I wouldn't discount that the proper weight training specifically for Karate or MA would not produce the same muscle bound results that I think the average is referring to in this thread. My opinion is that the only useful weight lifting in Karate is using weights while actually doing Karate - or perhaps simulating reps of kicks or punches while using a weight bench.

Spending the right amount of time training Karate is truly the only weight training one needs... Trust me, I use to have legs like tree trunks in my heavy training days - with no weight training at all.

- Killer -

Actually, it's most men that lift recreationally that think just upper body. I see it often: the fairly muscular upper body combined with a pair of chicken legs. Not good for much of anything.

However, once you get into the realm of serious strength training for sports, you will see how it is nothing but beneficial. For anyone who doubts how weight training can improve your flexibility, balance, and overall body strength, I always tell them to try out an overhead squat.

[Kuma]

I could be considered one of those fellows I suppose, since aside from Kyokushin I'm also an amateur strongman competitor. I can see we're not going to change each other's minds, but I tend to go with the philosophy of Sosai Oyama and feel that training with weights is a necessary part of being a karateka.

[ShoriKid]

If someone has worked to the point of being a competitive level body builder, they have developed the whole body. They have trained for strength, form and size, not just size. Proportion is very important to them. They may not be as 'fast' or 'flexible' as you would want in a high level karate-ka, but they can generally get there if they gear their weight training to that task.

I don't believe weight training is detrimental to martail arts preformance, karate especially. Iron sandles, the sand filled jars, asymetrical dumbells and barbell training are part of training a traditional karate-ka. All but the barbell were on Okinawa and used. If they'd have had the barbell, lifting large stones would not have been what they were doing. Weight and resistance training to increase strength have always been a part of martial training. They will continue to be as well because they increase effectiveness.

When you look at the things done with weights to increase combative effectiveness, your not just doing your technique with weights. Your training the muscle groups that power your techniques, or the core attributes that build your body in a beneficial ways to the art.

[bushido_man96]

Although you make a good point, and most serious competitive weight lifters don't do karate in the first place. But, I've still seen only one or two that fit the profile you are describing and be able to hold his own. Also, when I say what I've seen, I would be refering to a comparison of wieght lifters vs. US and International competition levels.

I think that the main thing to consider is that if they did begin to study Karate or some other Martial Art, that they could make that size and strength work for them. Its just a matter of working the Karate into the training regime, and putting it all together.

[Killer Miller]

I can agree with that statement. I'm not saying that they are Not capable "physically" to do effective Karate, but "mentally" they don't properly develop karate due to their mental alocation of muscle movement and development. Very few, meaning a hand=full, actually overcome the mental aspect of this issue...

- Killer -

Although you make a good point, and most serious competitive weight lifters don't do karate in the first place. But, I've still seen only one or two that fit the profile you are describing and be able to hold his own. Also, when I say what I've seen, I would be refering to a comparison of wieght lifters vs. US and International competition levels.

I think that the main thing to consider is that if they did begin to study Karate or some other Martial Art, that they could make that size and strength work for them. Its just a matter of working the Karate into the training regime, and putting it all together.

[Patcherson]

How can I increase speed and accuracy as a bigger guy?

PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE! Nothing improves anything without practice...tons of practice!

Some good ideas have been covered in this thread and they can't be argued with, but, without practice nothing is achieved.

when you stop getting better you stop being good

repeat your moves like you have an ocd its not coincidence that the older people in karate are also the fastest do each move 100s of times you will get speed faster than you can think trust me