June Issue of Jissen Magazine Available

[bushido_man96]

If our forms are supposed to be full of applications, and the forms are full of techniques done in kihon (basics), then I don't think that it is far off to say that much of the basic technique performed may have applications in and of themselves.

I see this in one of our white belt one-steps, where the defense resolves around a knife hand strike. This involves securing the attacking hand, pulling to hikite and striking the neck with the knifehand strike. The strike and the retracting hand are practiced in every class in the knifehand strike basic technique.

As far as the meat of the article goes, I'm not sure that anyone espoused the fact that it is easy to seize someone's wrist in an altercation. But in an altercation, there are many things that don't come easy. However, it is important to practice such skills, so that one you do experience the crash that tends to happen, as tallgeese mentions, then you have something in your box to go after.

[Wa-No-Michi]

If our forms are supposed to be full of applications, and the forms are full of techniques done in kihon (basics), then I don't think that it is far off to say that much of the basic technique performed may have applications in and of themselves.

I would say that first and foremost forms are full of oportunities to learn:-

- Technique (in its basic form "Kihon")

- Timing and distance

- Principles of movement

- Transition between stances

- Weight distribution

- Understanding of external forces (gravity)

- Stability

- Zanshin (awareness)

To name but a few.

For me at least, the above list represents a greater reason to practice solo kata over and above the desire to extract potential "Jujutsu- esque" applications from the form. This comes a bit later - building blocks as I say.

Its all in the movement guys... get that right and the rest will fall into place.

WNM

[bushido_man96]

I agree that those are all very important attributes that are attained through forms practice.

However, when you get an active partner in front of you, they all tend to change a bit. So, its important to do both. At some point, the building blocks have to become a house.

[Wa-No-Michi]

I agree that those are all very important attributes that are attained through forms practice.

However, when you get an active partner in front of you, they all tend to change a bit. So, its important to do both. At some point, the building blocks have to become a house.

Hold on... We were talking about forms weren't we?

You guys just want to want to rush on don't you

WNM

[bushido_man96]

I thought we were talking about everything that can be encompassed with the knowledge of the forms. Therefore, applications would apply, no?

[Wa-No-Michi]

I thought we were talking about everything that can be encompassed with the knowledge of the forms. Therefore, applications would apply, no?

But as they say... Kata is Kata, and Kumite (application if you like) is Kumite.

My point was driven by your earlier post

If our forms are supposed to be full of applications...

Well that's a moot point... are they? or are they better placed to help teach us how to move?

I remember having this discussion with tallgeese who (not being a trad Karate guy), openly suggested that he struggles with the concept - as to why Kata is trained in the first place...

If you want to learn basic locks holds and throws, then go to your local trad Jujutsu club. They will show you far better than any Karate guy will.

If it’s the above, plus ground work then maybe check out someone like TG (he talks more sense than most here I feel).

So why practice solo Kata then - particularly if you are not going to be shown how to apply the "possible" techniques properly?

Simple I think... movement... like shadow boxing... to hone movement etc.

The technical application as to how to make it work (to join up the dots) can then be more easily explained... by the big man as it were.

This is typically done through the process of "Kaisetsu" ->>> Yakusoku Kumite >>> and then Jiyu Kumite (free fighting).

Its very difficult to work this stuff out for yourself though, so no harm in reading these sort of publications but do it under parental supervision as it were.

WNM

[bushido_man96]

Not everything is done in the same manner or process as is done in Wado, however. And if forms were earlier touted as complete systems in and of themselves, then it would make sense to work on the forms applications, once the form is learned.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Not everything is done in the same manner or process as is done in Wado, however. And if forms were earlier touted as complete systems in and of themselves, then it would make sense to work on the forms applications, once the form is learned.

Your right bushi... I do tend to get caught up in my own little Wado world.

No excuse, but actually the author of the article in question is from a Wado-based group!

WNM

[sensei8]

Interesting debate going on about Kata here.

I'll just say this...Hhhhhmmmmmmmmmm! That's it! I've got my own viewpoints about Kata ( I'm a firm believer in all aspects of Kata training), but, if someone doesn't believe in Kata, for whatever their reasons might be, I'll never be able to convince them otherwise!

[bushido_man96]

Not everything is done in the same manner or process as is done in Wado, however. And if forms were earlier touted as complete systems in and of themselves, then it would make sense to work on the forms applications, once the form is learned.

Your right bushi... I do tend to get caught up in my own little Wado world.

No excuse, but actually the author of the article in question is from a Wado-based group!

WNM

This is true, but even though he has found some different ways of approaching things, does it make what he does less than Wado?