Movie Swords

[The BB of C]

I'm working on a movie right now that will involve Japanese fencing and special effects.

We're still in pre-production stages. One of our roadblocks is budget. This is because I was looking to get some 1040 carbon steel swords that I know would be able to withstand the choreographed sword fights. They're very nice katanas that were specifically designed for stage combat at $150 each.

One of my cameramen suggested we downgrade to basic 440 stainless steel swords to save time. A couple of my actors back that up. One of my other actors suggested buying bokkens that come with scabbards and painting the blades to look like steel.

These are my concerns with the suggstions:

My experiences with stainless steel swords is that they chip, knick, bend and break easily. Including the fact that they usually come sharp and are held together with a rat-tail tang. I obviously don't want to break an $50-$80 sword and even moreso I do not want to risk cutting any of my actors as accidents tend to happen. Though it would be cheaper, I've found these breaks to occur even at medium effort. A number of sword sellers near me agree with that. Whereas my friends seem to think they will only break if they are being full-force slammed. There are also problems with continuity and maintainence. Though I know I can take the edge off the swords, and if I know and expect them to receive dents, the dents can become sharp and hazardous and I don't know if I have the ability to carry around the tools to keep them dull.

What do you think/know about all this?

The other suggestion was to paint a bokken with a scabbard. He even told me where to find the paint and what it was called. I know this is what Jackie Chan does in his movies with swords from watching some of his documentaries. I actually like this suggestion a lot as I know I can replace the wood-clanging sounds with steel blade sound effects in the process of editing. And the risks of choreography accidents/cutting is almost zero. My only concern is will the paint chip? Also, are bokkens with scabbards able to take pressure from another sword. He also mentioned that the kind of paint needed is expensive (five dollars per can) and the cans do not cover very much surface space at all.

What do you think/know about all this?

Of course if we were to go with my original plan, we may have to film scenes out of sequence and it will obviously cost a lot more money. Though I am 90% these swords will last me quite a while especially compared to the other swords I bought which lasted me halfway through one short fight (choreographed sequence).

What do you think/know about all this?

While expressing these concerns, a few members of my crew accused me of being closed-minded. This isn't the case at all. I'm just weighing my options thoroughly because so far every time I've tried to do a sword fight - something breaks and then I'm out a sword and a bit of money. So I was wondering if anyone here knew anything about this.

Note:

The last sword I bought was a Chinese straight sword. I was told that it would be able to withstand a choreographed fight scene so long as there was no more than medium level power swings. That was obviously not a problem. However, during the filming, the blade broke in half. It turned out to be an aluminum alloy. Then I was out $45.

Edited June 9, 2009 by The BB of C

[isshinryu5toforever]

For safety's sake, it's always smart to use stage combat swords. I have friends who do film, and they would never use anything but equipment made for the stage. People get hurt when equipment fails unexpectedly. Especially with swords. Tell them it's more of a safety thing than anything. Also, as far as the painting the bokken thing goes, I have no experience, but I would be that the paint would chip. Maybe not, but you're basically spray painting wood that's been sealed already. The wood dents, you lose paint. It could still be a good way to save money, but who knows.

You also have to take into account the skill of the people handling the swords and how long the fight sequences are.

[bushido_man96]

I think that you would be better off spending more money now, and saving in replacing parts in the long run. Go with the quality.

Also, kudos and congrats on doing the filming. Very cool.

[NinTai]

I know this may be a little late but if they question weather or not 440 can take the abuse just show them this classic:

[sperki]

Wow, NinTai, that's a very convincing clip; I think BB of C can safely rule out the stainless steel! Assuming everybody knows what they're doing I'd go with the 1040 carbon. Good luck with the film - it sounds cool.

[The BB of C]

That was helpful, everyone. Thank you.

[bushido_man96]

So what have you decided to do?

[The BB of C]

Stainless steel swords are out of the equation entirely. Those who replied didn't know much about paint on bokkens so I'm going to gather information from the source tomorrow. Then I'll make my decision Saturday. I'll let you know.

[The BB of C]

Update.

One of my crew pitched the idea of getting this sword as opposed to a $150 stage combat sword and then grinding the edge off it. Good idea? Bad idea?

http://www.knivesdeal.com/product.sc;jsessionid=A6AAFC8C4932A60ADC518AED939D3DC1.qscstrfrnt03?productId=2258

[isshinryu5toforever]

No, because at that price, you're getting brittle steel. Also, if it is water tempered, it will have a hard edge. If you grind the edge down, you'll still have properties of the hardness near the edge of the blade.

In short, just go with the stage swords, that's what they're meant for. They have an intended purpose. These swords you're finding that are cheaper are for decoration. And if they were real cutting swords, wouldn't be meant for the movie world anyways. How many swords do you need to buy?