Kumite and traditional karate question

[Kuma]

Besides, you never know. You might be awesome at it in time.

I think Shotokan would be a good fit for you. It's very kihon and kata oriented but with the sanbon and ippon kumite (controlled three-step and one-step sparring) it will get you more comfortable with kumite.

[Fish]

Why do you want to study karate?

Most people, if they are beginners, start off not being very good at sparring and being apprehensive or fearful of it. A good instructor will help you become good at it.

In my view sparring is indispensable as it enables you to practice distance, timing, evasion etc with a partner - it's hard to practice those things solo.

[BDPulver]

Theres more to karate then sparring IMHO. Even though my style has weapons it does not have to be taught.

We use to have a surgeon in our class who could not do the kumite due to possible injury to his hands.

He took up karate for a number of reasons. But self defense according to him was not one of them. I respected his decision on a number of levels.

So to say that one has to learn kumite is to do karate isnt right. It is up the individual. We are there to help them, not to lecture them

[sensei8]

To Kumite or not to Kumite; that is the question. Whether/While its up to the individual; I subscribe to that as well! Unless...

So to say that one has to learn kumite is to do karate isnt right.

...One is wanting to know how to defend themselfs. One can't learn how to defend themselfs by doing just Kata. One can't learn how to defend themselfs by doing just Kihon. One can't learn how to defend themselfs unless someone attacks them. By engaging in every aspect of Kumite drills, including Jiyu, one will start to understand and know what it's like to have someone trying to remove their head.

IMHO, without Kumite, you're in a world of trouble! Is someone able to box by just doing shadow-boxing? NO! I've never seen a shadow try to remove another boxers head.

It is up the individual.

I subscribe to that! And I'm going to be the individual who gives his students the whole pie, not just a piece. The surgeon that wanted to protect his hands, I understand his reasons, but does anyone truly think that this surgeon is truly able to defend himself against a live target? I doubt it sincerely! If after I explain to the student the pro's and con's of doing and not doing Kumite and the student decides that he/she still doesn't want to do Kumite, then I'll explain to the student that they need to excercise their rightful options, including, don't do any martial arts.

We are there to help them, not to lecture them

I subscribe to that as well! We are there to help our students and this includes to not provide a false sense of securities. This, imho, is what will happen if students of the martial arts don't engage in live sparring! I'm not going to lecture my students, but, I'm going to properly educate them across the board. We're to teach our student the most EFFECTIVE way to defend themselfs, and imho, sparring is as paramount as learning how to fly IN an airplane in order to become an airline pilot.

He took up karate for a number of reasons. But self defense according to him was not one of them. I respected his decision on a number of levels.

I've never understood why anybody would take up any martial arts for any other reason than for self-defense. Karate is great for exercise and the like, but, that's not what the martial arts is about...learning how to properly and effectively defend oneself is the martial arts after one peels away this label and that label. Everything from the outside when a laymen looks at Karate speaks in volumes that Karate is self-defense.

One doesn't want to spar, then quit the martial arts, because sparring is vital and essential, imho. Want to join Karate for exercise? That's not Karate! You'll exercise and Karate provides a dynamic excercise, but, meanwhile, one's going to also learn how to defend oneself, whether one wants to or not. If one doesn't want to learn how to defend themselfs, then quit Karate and find another means...but....in this Dojo, we spar! Through Karate, one learns how to avoid a fight, but, when the attacker is determined to do one harm, one will be extremely grateful that one learned how to defend oneself, after all is said and done, that person will be so glad that one sparred until the wheels fell off and then kept going.

Sparring against live "targets" are essential, imho! Everything in Karate; the movements, the combinations, the drills, the Kihon, and the Kata screams outloud...SELF-DEFENSE/MARTIAL ARTS!

[Kuma]

We use to have a surgeon in our class who could not do the kumite due to possible injury to his hands.

What, no shoteis?

[bushido_man96]

Theres more to karate then sparring IMHO. Even though my style has weapons it does not have to be taught.

We use to have a surgeon in our class who could not do the kumite due to possible injury to his hands.

He took up karate for a number of reasons. But self defense according to him was not one of them. I respected his decision on a number of levels.

So to say that one has to learn kumite is to do karate isnt right. It is up the individual. We are there to help them, not to lecture them

I know that not every style is taught the same way, or has the same requirements. However, I think that some form of sparring tends to be a commonality amid most (again, most) Martial Styles. Be it step-sparring, or full-blown kumite, some form of sparring is going to be an essential part of drawing the "Martial" out of Martial Art.

I tend to agree with sensei8 for the most part, that sparring is a very important part of studying the Martial Arts, and learning how to interact with a resisting opponent in front of you is tantamount to learning how to apply different skills in moving and reacting.

[wouldbemaster]

If you really don't want to fight then tai chi is an excellant suggestion. The real questions is why martial arts in the first place and why just kata and no kumite, it cant be done it is meanless training. Tai chi would give you the grace and movement etc if that is what you want and a pretty hot martial art style if you are interest in that side as well later.

[Shizentai]

Being a 109lb anemic asthmatic and joint compromised blackbelt woman who has won tournaments in both kata and kumite, I find the excuse of being a "skinny guy who gets hurt easily" rather laughable. However, as I possess a similar physique, I do understand nooob's concern for not joining one of those shady dojos where they do nothing but punch eachother into bloody messes. That kind of so called "kumite training" is something that doesn't interest me either.

Nooob, you probably stopped reading this thread by now, but in the off chance that you see this, I urge you to consider a school that teaches both kata and partner work (which is not all free sparing by the way), because without one it's very hard to understand the meaning of the other.

[sperki]

Self-defense is WAY down the list of reasons to take up karate, at least for me. As I mentioned in some other post the chance of me being in a street fight is pretty minimal, and if it ever occurred I'd be more likely to rely on techniques I learned in the Marines than in karate. Additionally, sd was low on my list of reasons for studying karate because I felt (and still feel) that the fighting I learned in the military was as practical and functional as any out there. With that in mind I took up karate because 1. we perform certain athletic movements / exercises in the dojo that you don't really simulate in the gym, 2. I'm interested in eastern culture, 3. the mental benefits of narrowing my focus to one thing with no distractions is a rare treat.

As for sparring - that's part of ma for me, and I like it, it's sort of a culmination of reasons 1 and 3 above. But to decide that it's required and you can't do ma without sparring seems a bit holier than thou to me.

And noob, the tai chi suggestion is brilliant.

[bushido_man96]

Self-defense is WAY down the list of reasons to take up karate, at least for me. As I mentioned in some other post the chance of me being in a street fight is pretty minimal, and if it ever occurred I'd be more likely to rely on techniques I learned in the Marines than in karate. Additionally, sd was low on my list of reasons for studying karate because I felt (and still feel) that the fighting I learned in the military was as practical and functional as any out there. With that in mind I took up karate because 1. we perform certain athletic movements / exercises in the dojo that you don't really simulate in the gym, 2. I'm interested in eastern culture, 3. the mental benefits of narrowing my focus to one thing with no distractions is a rare treat.

As for sparring - that's part of ma for me, and I like it, it's sort of a culmination of reasons 1 and 3 above. But to decide that it's required and you can't do ma without sparring seems a bit holier than thou to me.

And noob, the tai chi suggestion is brilliant.

I agree that the reasons that you mentioned above for studying a Martial Art are all very valid, good reasons for taking up the journey.

However, I feel that along with these things, that good, practical self-defense should be a by-product of any Martial Arts training, especially if it is to be classified as a Martial Art. However, this is up to each instructor to decide for what his/her school will teach, be it right or wrong in how one looks at it...