Are you a student of Wado?

[Wa-No-Michi]

I totally agree that kata provides a great base for getting principles and focusing your training and it is interesting to look at what the kata teach you in terms of movement and in particular stance transition and its impact on technique and power generation etc.

We do study kata for this very reason but more interested in quality rather than quantity so tend to stick to Pinan Nidan through to Wanshu not in the school of thought that knowing extra kata makes you a better martial artist.

Am interested in bunkai but not to the detrement of the real reason for kata within wado.

I wonder if you have tried generating your own kata. Given that kata is fundamentally a process to explain principles through a combined form a bit like explaining principles through movement and without speaking. Not kata as in kihon kumite but a full form. It was an interesting process that, whilst it did not produce a new Kushanku or Bassai did help to open my eyes wider to the potential meaning and principles of the kata's we study in wado. Providing people develop their kata with the projection and education of core principles in mind, leave their ego at home and once complete to forget your kata and focus with a new mind on the origional kata I highly recommend the process from a learning perspective.

It is principle that is important not individual technique. To train with a fixed technique for a fixed attack or situation just IMO get you hurt. Learn the principles and adapt your training to ensure you are free from the constraints of fixed techniques and you will be more flexible and adaptable should the time come, open your mind to the possibilities but never forget the path. Stick to the principles like good morals and don't lose yourself to the darkside.

Brian

Hi Brian,

Good post, sounds like we are definitely on the same wavelength.

My group is a traditional Wado group affiliated to the JKF - Wado-kai, and as such our meat and two veg in Kata terms is the pinans up to and including Chinto.

We also practice the remaining six kata in the "nominal" 15 and some of us were fortunate enough to have also been taught Suparenpei - but to be honest, I am of a mind that there is more than enough involved in learning the main 9 - but the other 5 or 6 from Bassai and Wanshu upwards are good fun and if they keep you interested then why not.

To be honest I have never felt compelled to try and make up my own kata, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but in the same light, I personally feel I have more than enough to take on board with the first nine, let alone trying to make up more.

I agree though that one should not become "stuck" in your kata or allow it to become "igata" as the old boy says.

Our creativity when it comes to Kata practice tends to be more along the lines of "Kaisetsu" (better word that Bunkai ) -we do encourage our students to "think outside the box" on these but whilst still utilising the Wado principles.

WNM

[wouldbemaster]

up to chinto as base, next 6 as fun to learn that is more than enough.

As someone who has been through the learning experience of tryting to develop a kata as an experiment and as someone who's day job in in learning and development within business I can only express how useful I found the process in helping to consolidation my own learning and understanding of kata. If you asked me to demonstrate it now I would struggle to remember it, we are talking about 5 years ago and I have purposely remained truthful to practicing and studying the core kata. As an experiment try freeing up perhaps one training session to try it, think through key principles and different angles etc and give it a go. Promise you will find it an interesting experience, after all if no-one had done the same thing in the past we would have not kata in which to remind us of core principles.

Yours in Wado

Brian

[Wa-No-Michi]

up to chinto as base, next 6 as fun to learn that is more than enough.

As someone who has been through the learning experience of tryting to develop a kata as an experiment and as someone who's day job in in learning and development within business I can only express how useful I found the process in helping to consolidation my own learning and understanding of kata. If you asked me to demonstrate it now I would struggle to remember it, we are talking about 5 years ago and I have purposely remained truthful to practicing and studying the core kata. As an experiment try freeing up perhaps one training session to try it, think through key principles and different angles etc and give it a go. Promise you will find it an interesting experience, after all if no-one had done the same thing in the past we would have not kata in which to remind us of core principles.

Yours in Wado

Brian

To be honest, I can see your point, but I am trying to come at it from another angle.

I see my job as a student of Wado is to try to learn the Wado katas developed by Otsuka (who's Budo/Martial experience outweighs any of us on this mortal coil), then try to understand them in terms of how they fit into the Wado kumite spectrum of things and ultimately work in concert with the wado pair work / paired kata and ultimately kumite.

Ippon/sanbon Kumite

Ohyo Kumite

Kihon Kumite

Idori

Tanto Dori

Jiyu Kumite etc etc

Its completing the circle of "Wa" as it were - not easy but great fun. The key thing is - it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you arrive as a good Wado-ka.

As they say - Each to their own

WNM

[wouldbemaster]

I understand your desire to live the Wado path to its fullest and strive to also maintain the legacy of our masters principles in my training. I respect your wish to be true to Wado and focus on what has been should before and wish you all the look in the world.

If I may make one final observation/comment before moving on it would be that the journey that Otsuka took in developing Wado involved being a maverick, analysing others arts rather than purely focusing on his jujitsu legacy that he had been entrusted to continue the message on back his master. In someways in not asking difficult or probing questions, in not exploring the why and the what as well as the how we can never learn what he learnt but instead just try and understand the thinking/place on his journey up to the day that he died. I do appreciate that he will have passed on many words of wisdom to his son, but with the best will in the world his son, however good a wado master, did not walk the same journey his father did. It could be said that in focusing on the end message Otsuka has helped us get to that point in our journey quicker through the benefit of his learning. However if we are to truly understand we need to where possible I think ask the why question to ensure we try and see what he saw and discover what he discovered.

Like life whilst our parents pass on their wisdom and experience to help define our morals and principles there will always be some learning that needs to be experiential and that we need to learn for ourselves and in doing so make us better than before.

I am commited to maintaining the legacy and keeping the flame alive, just suggesting for some the process of questioning and trying can help you better understand why Otsuka potentially thought the way he did.

My humble opinion for what it is worth, good luck.

[Wa-No-Michi]

If I may make one final observation/comment before moving on it would be that the journey that Otsuka took in developing Wado involved being a maverick, analysing others arts rather than purely focusing on his jujitsu legacy that he had been entrusted to continue the message on back his master. In someways in not asking difficult or probing questions, in not exploring the why and the what as well as the how we can never learn what he learnt but instead just try and understand the thinking/place on his journey up to the day that he died. I do appreciate that he will have passed on many words of wisdom to his son, but with the best will in the world his son, however good a wado master, did not walk the same journey his father did. It could be said that in focusing on the end message Otsuka has helped us get to that point in our journey quicker through the benefit of his learning. However if we are to truly understand we need to where possible I think ask the why question to ensure we try and see what he saw and discover what he discovered.

This is an interesting point wouldbemaster.

Whilst I accept that Otsuka himself was alleged to have suggested that Wado was not finished/complete - I think this was meant in terms of Shu-ha-ri.

Granted it is the responsibility of all of us to experiment and learn from this, but I think this has to be done with a note of caution.

Was Otsuka a Maverick? - I think this term could be a little misleading and might suggest to the less informed amongst us that because Otsuka studied a variety of karate styles before developing his own, then this somehow makes it OK for us to do - in fact it is what he would have wished!!

Maybe it was, but my intuition tells me that there was far more to Otsuka (and the development of wado) than this for the following reasons:

1. From what I have read (and been told by people more informed than me) Otsuka's journey in the martial world started more or less from the day he was born. He was brought up in a culture surrounded by budo. His martial training was in an era when it could truly be viewed as a way of life - he was immersed in it, which is a far cry from the training that most of us receive today at the Karate club in the local church hall once or twice a week.

So really he was already a highly qualified and skilled martial artist years before he embarked on his journey to learn Karate.

2. Arguably, Otsuka did not seek to learn Karate in order to make his martial skills better per-se (or at least in the way that most people cross train today). This is where the confusion arises imo - He was already well accomplished in this area. More realistically, he saw in the newly emerging art of Karate an opportunity.

He saw a "vehicle" which he could modify in order to bring a kind of structured pedagogy to his vision of Jujutsu, and promote his new proposed artform under the banner of "karate" to boot.

Factor into this the feeling of nationalism at the time (discussed earlier with the issue of Justu Vs Do) and a picture starts to emerge.

Take the Okinawan model of Kata and Bunkai (how they are trained and for what reason), and compare it with the Wado model of kata>> kaisetsu>> Paired kata>> Jiyu Kumite - and they are two distinctly different means to the same end.

The above does not sit comfortably with many Wado-ka who like to look to other styles and arts in order to fill in the gaps, but it makes total sense to me, when you consider comments that Otsuka has been noted to say including:

"Okinawan Karate is to Wado as a pinch of salt is to a stew"

So, was Otsuka a maverick who sought to question / challenge his existing knowledge and the training he went on to receive from other karate master - or did he already have a clear vision as to what he was trying to achieve and did it off the bat of Okinawan Karate?

Food for thought maybe?

WNM

[wouldbemaster]

I am not doubting our masters martial arts knowledge far from it and agree that perhaps part of his journey was to maximise the interest in karate at the time.

Just to clarify I used the term maverick which I agree could on reflection be taken out of context. I feel he was definitely open minded and a visionary, willing to question and explore ut not the side of maverick where you might do this in a reckless way. You may notice from other posts I have placed on this site that I actively encourage all to get a solid grounding in their base art (3rd dan) before thinking of looking in any level of substance at other arts in order to not water down their own art.

I still reserve the right to feel that like kata mneeding to be a constant flow so must the martrial artist mind in terms of exploration. I totally agree that all arts have plenty to keep you busy when studying them but think the odd why question and reflection can be healthy. I like to eat a healthy diet but the odd burger is good for the soul, the key is to not eat to much and get fat and to never forget wat food is good for you.

B

[Wa-No-Michi]

I like to eat a healthy diet but the odd burger is good for the soul, the key is to not eat to much and get fat and to never forget wat food is good for you. B

Hmmmnn..... Burger!!

WNM

[wouldbemaster]

Ah ha I win I converted you to the dark side, well light grey side, even for a second before returning to your pure self and what did it take? Nothing but the thought if a burger. Might I suggest that you go in a darkened room and think heavily about how easierly you were distracted! lol

[Wa-No-Michi]

Ah ha I win I converted you to the dark side, well light grey side, even for a second before returning to your pure self and what did it take? Nothing but the thought if a burger. Might I suggest that you go in a darkened room and think heavily about how easierly you were distracted! lol

Damn you tasty beef patties!!!

I feel the need to take myself off to the corner of the dojo to do the purest of Junzuki 100 times.

After that, I'll go down the pub probably.

You know, to replace lost fluids.

WNM

[bushido_man96]

Hell, I'm just going to go have a burger or two. Thanks for the suggestion!