Are you a student of Wado?

[wouldbemaster]

I am interested to find out who, how many etc fellow students and instructors of Wado there might be on the forum and your location in the world, whether Wado Kai, Wado Ryu, Wado Ryu Karate Jitsu etc.

Thanks

Brian

[sperki]

Brian there is a Wado Ryu school very close to me in Salt Lake City that I am considering joining. What is the difference between the Wado Kai, Ryu and Karate Jitsu?

[Wa-No-Michi]

The 3 main international Wado groups are as follows:

1. Japan Karate Federation (JKF) Wado-kai

2. Wado-Ryu Renmei

3. Wado Kokusai (or WIKF)

The style of Karate practiced by all 3 is Wado Ryu.

One of the early names that Otsuka chose for his art was “Shinshu Wado Ryu Karate Jujutsu", however shortly after this was abbreviated to WadoRyu.

Some schools may refer to what they do today as Wado ryu karate Jujutsu, but this is probably in an attempt to emphasise the Jujutsu element within the art, to make it more appealing to those who otherwise may overlook it as a choice - however essentially, it is still Wado ryu.

WNM

[edit] There is a another group who operate in North America who use the term "Wado kai" to descibe their Karate. The group in question is NOT recognised by any of the main International groups.

[wouldbemaster]

Thanks to WNM for his help in identifying the three main wado groups.

I personally am not links to either. From the Toru Takamizawa Tera Karate Kai camp with main sensei my father who was lucky enough to get his 1st and 2nd dans from H Otsuka Senior himself prior to his untimely death, we became like main disappointed with the in style politicals and instead have focused on maintaining the principles we were taught admitedly testing the art on a regular basis and still training with the likes of suzuki and shionara when have the chance. Probably seen as unclean now by members of the three groups mentioned early.

With regards the use of wado ryu karate jitsu I agree it does provide a more visual link to the ju jitsu side of wado and that yes it is all wado it is also a conscious effort to emphasis the focu on practical martial art rather than a more current focus on wado as a sport. don't get me wrong I like to free fight and test my abilities in this way, but more interested in focusing in on practical self defence/martial art and developing as a person than gaining medals and potentially developing inappropriate muscle memory. Oops even more unclean!

For the record have been training in martial arts since aged 6 and now 44 and whilst I a not perfect and always learning I feel I have travelled more new journies than repeated trips due to not learning properly. Started with judo, do aikido, kendo, wing chun, tai chi chuan but wado is my home and my inspiration.

Based in Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.

Keep smiling, I off for a shower!

[Wa-No-Michi]

I personally am not links to either. From the Toru Takamizawa Tera Karate Kai camp with main sensei my father who was lucky enough to get his 1st and 2nd dans from H Otsuka Senior himself prior to his untimely death, we became like main disappointed with the in style politicals and instead have focused on maintaining the principles we were taught admitedly testing the art on a regular basis and still training with the likes of suzuki and shionara when have the chance. Probably seen as unclean now by members of the three groups mentioned early.

Mr Takamizawa was indeed influential in propagating Wado under the banner of the UKKF/W? as it was then, and then with the likes of Mr Spanton and Mr James etc. No argument there. The politics in Wado are/were not un-similar to that of other arts like Aikido for example, but certainly it was the cause for many to depart from the main wado fold prematurely maybe?

shionara ?? Perhaps Shinohara sensei?? Either way, I catch the drift.

With regards the use of wado ryu karate jitsu I agree it does provide a more visual link to the ju jitsu side of wado and that yes it is all wado it is also a conscious effort to emphasis the focu on practical martial art rather than a more current focus on wado as a sport. don't get me wrong I like to free fight and test my abilities in this way, but more interested in focusing in on practical self defence/martial art and developing as a person than gaining medals and potentially developing inappropriate muscle memory. Oops even more unclean!

Not unclean fella, as long as the principles remain constant. Change the principles behind it and it ceases to be Wado.

One problem I have though, is when people read the word "Jujutsu" attached to Wado, and see in their minds eye "modern Jujutsu" ie locks and throws and holds (of the Judo type). Of course the Jujutsu that Otsuka was exposed to in his Shindo Yoshin Ryu upbringing was of the "Koryu" nature, with a very different flavour (and purpose) to that of the often homogenised modern stuff

This combined with a lack of detailed wado understanding often causes Wado-ka to look to other arts or self proclaimed "Bunkai masters" for answers which is a shame I think, as it is looking in a wrong direction if you want your Wado to get better IMO.

I also would not be too quick to dismiss the importance of "shiai" or competition karate within traditional Wado spectrum of things.

As I understand it Otsuka saw this as very important conditioning for Wado-ka to experience.

Anyway..rant over, I hope you enjoyed your shower.

Cheers

WNM

[sperki]

So there are two types of Wado-Kai, but only one is recognized by JKF, and it and the other two types listed both practice what I might call Wado-Ryu? Is it essentially the same art with three different titles?

[Wa-No-Michi]

So there are two types of Wado-Kai, but only one is recognized by JKF, and it and the other two types listed both practice what I might call Wado-Ryu? Is it essentially the same art with three different titles?

Its the same art practiced by three different groups - JKF Wado-kai, Renmei and WIKF.

At one stage there was only one group that practiced the art of Wado-ryu, and that was the Wado-kai, but it has now subsiquently divided into 3.

Think of them as different head offices.

As you say the "other" group who opereate in the US and Canada under the name of Wado-kai have nothing to do with the JKF Wado-kai.

If in Doubt you could contact Bob Nash, who runs the oficial US branch of the JKF Wado-kai, and I am sure he will help you out.

https://www.uswadokai.com

Thanks

WNM

[wouldbemaster]

Yes many fantastic karate masters around in Toru's day like Peter Spanton who I feel have not lost their way. Others of the same time and from also liked to my origional home club of the Budokan club in Middlesbrough such as Cliff Richmond and Norman Wall also keep the faith as it were and very much alive and kicking with Norman still teaching and training in middlesbrough with a small but serious quality of senior karateka some of which started their own training in the Budokan when it was still in Basil Street, are the memories come flooding back.

With regards your comments of Jujitsu as in wado jujitsu I agree that the focus on jujitsu without the background knowledge needed can lead to a watering down of the karate. There are only so many hours in the day etc. Having said that it is important to recognise the jujitsu principles that distiguish wado from other karate styles. You will not that I did not use jujitsu in my early post but instead just jitsu as in 'martial' when talking about practical martial application of wado rather than sport.

I also agree regarding the need to fight and test yourself and your art. Otsuka himself stressed this, I did say that free fighting is important I suppose the main disappointment I have felt in watching the evolution of wado in the last thirty years is the increasing focus on free fighting often it feels at the expense of the martial art. Sport karate rather than a martial art, after all the really effective techniques in martial arts are often the ones that you are not allowed to use in competition etc. All in favour of testing and building application of technique work just not pure sport for sports sake.

WNM you come across as a very knowledgable wado exponant with lots of history in terms of who you have trained with, we may have even met and training together in the past.

There are lots of names for wado with three main federations but many others who train under the banner of wado some of which strive to keep the flame alive and some I am sad to say who have lost the wado path, still great martial artists but not training in wado but instead their own evolution.

Keep smiling and for those who are contemplating studying wado, as someone who as spent his life in martial arts for me (and for what its worth) I do think that wado will give you the best introduction to martial arts with its true mix of techniques so go for it.

Keep smiling.

Brian

[Wado-AJ]

So there are two types of Wado-Kai, but only one is recognized by JKF, and it and the other two types listed both practice what I might call Wado-Ryu? Is it essentially the same art with three different titles?

it is the same style with a different administrative body. Perhaps you could say there are some minor differences, but this is all due to the instructors heart. It's not important which adm. body you follow, it's the instructor and the atmosphere in the dojo that counts.

edit: ala forum style: IMHO off course..

AJ.

[ninjaki]

hi yeh

i do Wado Ryu Karate and that what i am going to let you know what one i do.