Yaka no Sai vs Hama Higa no Sai

[rogue2257]

I've been doing a lot of poking around and looking at different sai kata/forms on the internet. I came across these two, and I'm noticing that the two are extremely similar. From what I can tell, both follow the classic I or H pattern seen in the early Heian or Pinan katas. On that, the first half of the two seem nearly identical, if not exactly identical, changing at the halfway point, but still share several similar actions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igyc1mE8WMk

Of course, the practitioners in the videos are clearly of different styles, but their similarity is noticeable.

What I'm more curious about than anything, is for those of you who actually have these katas in your school syllabus, do you actively practice both katas, or just one? Interestingly, I noticed as well that both kata are listed on the USANKF officially sanctioned kata list: http://karate.teamusa.org/content/index/713

[BDPulver]

The first one is very similiar to our chatan yari no sai kata. The 2nd one really doesnt come close to any of ours I can think of.

[rogue2257]

True, there are are number of similarities to Chatan Yara there, but the forms are far more similar to one another than anything else I've seen.

[BDPulver]

not sure, the second one is very different from what I can see of it. Maybe its just me studying my forms alot and seeing what is similar and what is not.

[rogue2257]

Of course, they're very different stylistically, the one practitioner has short (and to me) almost incomplete looking techniques, while the other has an abundance of hip action. Ignoring the style differences of the two practitioners, the individual actions in the two forms are quite similar until they diverge around the halfway point, but then still share actions, specifically the three steps backwards where the leg lifts and one sai is held low and the other held high above the head.

The similarities between the two was never really my question though. I'm more curious if they're actually practiced together or not. To me it seems that their similarity would make it difficult to actively practice both.

Is there anyone out there that actually practices either of these katas?

[armanox]

We practice Hamhiga in my school. Yaka does not sound familiar, but, has a lot of familiar components to it.

[rogue2257]

From what I've seen, a lot of the sai katas seem to have extremely similar sequences, if not the exact same sequences in many places. Of course, this is just the observations of someone that doesn't have the opportunity to learn them from a regular instructor.

[bushido_man96]

I would reason that this is the case because there are really only so many ways that the weapon can be used in a realistic fashion.

[rogue2257]

I would reason that this is the case because there are really only so many ways that the weapon can be used in a realistic fashion.

A notion that has merit, certainly. On the other hand, look at the traditional empty handed kata. They're only so many ways to punch somebody in the head, but there's a lot of variation from kata to kata. You don't typically see the same sequences repeated over and over, to an extent, certainly, but not the way I've seen with certain sai kata. I suppose though, that that could be something far more common amongst the kobudo kata and I've just not had enough exposure to the various forms to notice.

[bushido_man96]

Yes, you make a good point. But, not all of the empty-hand motions of kata will translate to that of weapon kata, either. Of course, I have to admit that my exposure to weapons katas is limited.