Forms/katas Names and Origins

[furry_Homeboy]

Hey everybody! I'm new here, but that's not the focus of this post.

One of the main reasons I joined these forums is that they are great for sharing knowledge and information.

Along those lines, in the school which I am a member of we learn a number of forms (though we call them katas since it's karate) which are not very common. There are probably thousands or millions of forms in the world, so that's probably not unordinary to unique katas, but regardless, I was wondering if anyone out there has heard of any of the following forms/katas and has any additional information on them. If so that would be fantastic!

Banah Kata/Form - There seems to be almost no information about this kata/form on the internet or anywhere else. In our school, we only know the beginning of it and the rest has vanished with time. What we do know is that it was passed down through Willem Reeders (largely studied kuntao/silat) meaning it may be of Indonesian origin. It begins with roughly with the following: a step to the side, front kick, side kick, side block, scoop with the hand, kick and then back fist. If anyone knows of something similar that would be cool to hear also.

I-Hon kata - We know the whole version of this kata but we don't quite know what the name means. If anyone can tell me what the name means that would be awesome.

Chonan Kata - Same as above, if anyone knows what the name means, then that would be great. This and the above kata have been passed down by a man named Kitagawa. However, if anybody has more information about Kitagawa, then that would also be interesting to here about.

If anyone has any question of their own about obscure techniques/katas and would like to know more, then perhaps here we can help each other find out more. Of course, the most valuable parts are the katas/techniques themselves, but the histories are still fascinating nonetheless.

Thanks everyone.[/i][/b]

[Wa-No-Michi]

Hi furry_Homeboy, and welcome to the forum.

What style of Karate do you study?

I don't recognise the names of the Katas you mentioned, and they don't appear to be very "Japanese" sounding words.

They could be Okinawan but I would suggest that they were probably more like Chinese - or as you say Indonesian.

Good luck with your search.

WNM

[furry_Homeboy]

It's tricky to say what style of karate we practice. It's heavily influenced by Shotokan and Wado-Ryu, but there is also a heavy influence by other arts such as tai-chi. However, most of our katas and techniques are from shotokan/wado-ryu. We say generally it comes from Japanese/Okinawan karate and therefore we pay respect by calling it karate, however that doesnt entirely encompass everything we do.

Though, I should have been more specific, I put this post in general martial arts because even though we practice karate, I am pretty sure that the Banah "Kata" is not japanese and I think it comes from Indonesia or something similar. Honestly though, the Banah form could come from just about anywhere. It turns out that Willem Reeders studied many, many arts, and we think it was passed down by him.

Also, it's possible Chonan may mean somethings along the line of basic or first since it is the first kata students are taught and is one of the "simplest" (though of course infinite things can be learned from even a simple kata). Also, I-Hon kata is a breathing kata, and I think it may, just maybe, mean something along the lines of power kata.

That would be awesome if we have any language experts here.

[Wa-No-Michi]

What is the name of your school?

Can't the instructors throw any light on the names etc.

WNM

[furry_Homeboy]

Our name is Kodokai, or Kodo school of karate. We are a small group and not part with any large associations. It's a great group of people.

I have had talks before about these katas and have found out a good deal about them. There are still just some questions which we didn't really have any answers for, especially about the banah kata. This is more of just a fun attempt to find out any more information about these katas simply because it's interesting!

After all, there are millions of people on the internet and you never know who might know something.

[giridas]

I am far from expert in this area, but Chonan sounds similar to Channan. I've been reading a bit about the "lost" Channnan kata recently. According to what I've seen, Channan was either the old name for the Pinan/Heian series, or it was a Chinese-derived kata from which Itosu created the Pinan/Heian series (along with Kushanku?). The sources I've read refer to Channan as a corruption of a Chinese name, something like Chang Nan, either the name of a man or of a martial style. But then Channan doesn't sound like it was a basic or beginner's kata, so I'm not sure it's related to your Chonan. It's possible though that the name could be even if the movements are not.

[sensei8]

Chonan IS a beginner's Kata, its a power Kata, not too many movements make up either Chonan or Chonan Shodan; it's usually taught to White, Yellow, and/or Orange Belts.

Akira Kitagawa, Shorin-Ryu; Kitagawa Sensei is credited with the Chonan Kata's as he was taught the Chonan Kata series by Master Itosu. Did Master Itosu create the Chonan Kata seriers? The verdict is still out on this, depending on whom one talks to. Kitagawa Sensei had trained in Shuri-te under Master Matsumura and Master Itosu. Kitagawa Sensei's methods were considered cruel in todays Dojo's; students often trained on ice barefoot and Kitagawa Sensei's student would say that sparring/training on the ice was a battle of life and death. It was very common for Kitagawa Sensei's students to be found smashing their fists/feet/arms/shins into trees until the bark fell off the trees, still, the fallen bark wasn't a signal to stop....one would wait for the signal to stop way into the darkness. Well, this is what I know of Kitagawa Sensei as told us of the Shindokan Karate-Do by our Soke, Fuyuhiko Saitou Sensei. How did my Soke know of Kitagawa Sensei? That was never expressed by my Soke Saitou Sensei.

As to its meaning...well..."First born son" is widely recognized, but, again, it depends on which Karate camp one speaks to.

[furry_Homeboy]

Thanks for the information. That's fascinating. Kitagawa sounds perhaps not cruel, but extreme, and very interesting.

I don't believe the Chonan Kata is related to the Channan kata. A rough explanation of the Chonan kata is that it's almost always in horsestance with a few side steps and an emphasis on punching.

I believe I-Hon kata also came from Kitagawa. Do you by anychance know what that name means? If it helps, the I-Hon has a very large emphasis on the movement of the breathe.

The name "first born son" is interesting, though i wonder why that name was chosen. Perhaps since it's one of the first learned katas, though maybe not also. Any ideas?

[swift99]

Shintani sensei oftem spoke about kitagawa sensei when teaching. Kitagawa sensei taught in the New Denver internment camp in Canada during WW2. He was suffering from tuberculosis at the time, and running a continuous fever, so he could only work out comfortably in the extreme cold. After WW2, he returned to Okinawa.

His training methods were considered harsh at the time, and would be considered abusive by today's standards. However, he was training kids for survival in a prison camp rather than sport - it is unclear how much the setting influenced his training style.

For more information about Kitagawa sensei, start from http://www.wado.ca/top.html

[Wastelander]

Banah certainly sounds like it would have come from somewhere other than karate, but the other two sound like poorly-pronounced Japanese words. I would propose that "I-Hon Kata" may actually be "Kihon Kata" as pronounced by someone with a bad accent. The word "kihon" means "basic" or "foundation," and breath kata are often considered "kihongata" in karate, so this makes sense. Do you have a video of it, by any chance? This is the only video I could find that might be it:

Chonan isn't a kata I had ever heard of, but if it's this one (

) then it looks like a modern creation--probably post-WW2. The movements look very much like the basics of modern karate, with one or two throwbacks to old techniques.