An interesting hypothetical

[RW]

And what if it IS your boxing teacher getting flattened? Entirely plausible; Boxing is as much of a traditional MA as any of the other ones you listed, when you come down to it, and it makes just as many assumptions as the rest..

I know, it is.

The only point is that especially in boxing it is highly likely that you have seen your instructor put on the gloves and duke it out, for which you already have a better idea of what he can't or can't do ...

[RW]

Let's suppose you practice karate/taekwondo/kung fu/krav Maga/Jiu Jitsu/Judo, etc (NOT boxing or muay thai).

You happen to be in the same bar as your sensei (or instructor or whatever), but he hasn't seen you. Some dude gets into a fight with him. An obviously huge, menancing guy, but certainly not a mike tyson or Randy Couture.

The dude beats the **** out of your sensei. You sensei tried to fight back and lost fair and square.

Would you lose respect for your sensei? Would you quit the class?

No, I would not lose respect for my sensei nor quit for that particular reason. People are human and humans aren't perfect.

I've noticed something in martial arts. You might find one or two students who truly believe that their instructor is infallible, --- perfect --- above and beyond making mistakes. They idolize and worship them blindly --- and so in a case like this, that student seeing their instructor fail, most likely would find some specific excuse why their "hero" didn't win.

I say, "big deal" - they lost - fair and square. You win some and you lose some. It just means that wasn't your time to win or someone was better strategized than you. It really annoys me when a student will look at their instructor with "rose-colored glasses" and make some excuse when this happens.

They lost, big deal, get over it. Next time they'll do better. But I would not be ashamed of them. In some cases, it actually humbles people.

Great post.

[JusticeZero]

Well, in a lot of arts you've seen your instructor put on -something- and 'duke it out'. In Judo for instance you see them grab people who don't want to be moved and toss them around the room. Some Karate sparring sets are brutal. And so on, so forth.

It's completely reasonable to think that your Boxing instructor would 'put up his dukes' only to have punches go through his ungloved guard like it wasn't there, and low attacks go unresisted.

Boxing and MT don't get a free pass to respectability.

[Truestar]

Some people have mentioned losing respect not for the loss of the fight, but for the loss of control.

Fact is, a black belt doesn't make you a great fighter just by wearing it and we all know that. But it also doesn't make you a top notch negotiator. What if the fight was just bound to happen with no way of avoiding it?

Obviously a lot of applicable "what ifs".

[joesteph]

What if the fight was just bound to happen with no way of avoiding it?

It's true. Things like this happen whether we've contributed to them or not. Some things are just out of our control, like trying to reason with a guy who's had too much to drink.

There are those who hate their own lives, frequent a bar, and take it out on somebody else. An attack can come out of nowhere, like the proverbial "sucker punch."

What was presented in the OP was, as I interpret it, that the sensei lost the fight. Now, having witnessed that, do you continue with him in terms of self-defense?

[Throwdown0850]

I wouldn't quit, as tough as my instructor prob is, I believe there is always somebody tougher out there.

[Truestar]

I guess it depends on how he lost.

Was he not expecting a hit? Was he suddenly attacked and knocked out? Was his work just plain sloppy?

If it was a general instructor more than likely I would trust it just wasn't his fight to win. We can't always come out on top. If anything I would hope he takes it as a learning experience and reflects upon the fight as to see what techniques are working, and maybe new drills in class to work on to help the situation.

If it was my current instructor I'd feel the same way. Fact of the matter is, you can't win every fight. Then again if there was a definite weight and height advantage to my instructor, I should trust he can handle that situation. It's not to say the smaller are weaker, but the reach has great advantages.

An interesting situation regardless.

[Kuma]

Too many variables, impossible to say. If he was the cause of it, yes, but if he was the victim then no as anyone can be a victim.

Though most likely, knowing my sempai, he would put a hurting on someone. After 25 years of Kyokushin and just being a pretty tough dude in general (he did awesome in his last belt test where at 50 years old he fought for over 50 minutes straight in jissen kumite) he would do well.

[bushido_man96]

I'm with tallgeese and Tiger here.

Probably should never happen, but if it did, the very fact it escalated into a scrap would be more of a reason to lose respect for someone rather than the outcome of the fight in question.

WNM

It would depend for me what the reasons for the fight starting are. If the instructor is the obvious instigator, then I would probably lose some respect for him, regardless of whether or not he won or lost the fight. If these weren't the circumstances, then I wouldn't let it bother me that much. I have no illusions about my ability to lose a fight, so that isn't as big a deal to me.

Neither do I see the relevance of whether or not the art is Boxing, Thai Boxing, or any other style. All are viable. And all can lose.

Also, if I did see my instructor in a bar, I'd probably not go out of my way to avoid them, either. I'd just go say hi, and then do my thing. But I wouldn't slink around to let them know that I wasn't there.

[bushido_man96]

And what if it IS your boxing teacher getting flattened? Entirely plausible; Boxing is as much of a traditional MA as any of the other ones you listed, when you come down to it, and it makes just as many assumptions as the rest..

I know, it is.

The only point is that especially in boxing it is highly likely that you have seen your instructor put on the gloves and duke it out, for which you already have a better idea of what he can't or can't do ...

I'm not sure that Boxing and Muay Thai trainers do a lot more sparring than the instructor on any other Martial Art does. Just being an instructor/coach demands so much time that it makes it difficult for an instructor/coach to find the time during class to spar and workout at the level that the students are working at.