An interesting hypothetical

[RW]

Let's suppose you practice karate/taekwondo/kung fu/krav Maga/Jiu Jitsu/Judo, etc (NOT boxing or muay thai).

You happen to be in the same bar as your sensei (or instructor or whatever), but he hasn't seen you. Some dude gets into a fight with him. An obviously huge, menancing guy, but certainly not a mike tyson or Randy Couture.

The dude beats the **** out of your sensei. You sensei tried to fight back and lost fair and square.

Would you lose respect for your sensei? Would you quit the class?

[RW]

I excluded boxing and muay thai because in those ones you've probably seen your instructor duke it out and know how good or bad he is...

[joesteph]

What I concluded a long time ago is that, in the martial arts, there's a limit to what level individual dan members reach when it comes to fighting. Many, I believe, excel in the "art" of their martial art, and may have a fantastic number of trophies won in tournaments, but these are symbols, tangible suggestions that the individual is a superior fighter, but not indicators of an invincible fighter.

In the tournament I attended today, which was a fundraiser, far more awards were given out for kata and weapons forms than for sparring.

Edited May 10, 2009 by joesteph

[tallgeese]

Probibly shouldn't come to that.

If one of the dudes from your school, instructor included, is getting ready to throwdown and it's the other dudes fault, you'd better be jumping in before any of your buddies are beat down. Either to break it up or attacker the attacker from a superior and unecxpected direction. Any other response is unacceptable.

[JusticeZero]

And what if it IS your boxing teacher getting flattened? Entirely plausible; Boxing is as much of a traditional MA as any of the other ones you listed, when you come down to it, and it makes just as many assumptions as the rest..

[Tiger1962]

Let's suppose you practice karate/taekwondo/kung fu/krav Maga/Jiu Jitsu/Judo, etc (NOT boxing or muay thai).

You happen to be in the same bar as your sensei (or instructor or whatever), but he hasn't seen you. Some dude gets into a fight with him. An obviously huge, menancing guy, but certainly not a mike tyson or Randy Couture.

The dude beats the **** out of your sensei. You sensei tried to fight back and lost fair and square.

Would you lose respect for your sensei? Would you quit the class?

No, I would not lose respect for my sensei nor quit for that particular reason. People are human and humans aren't perfect.

I've noticed something in martial arts. You might find one or two students who truly believe that their instructor is infallible, --- perfect --- above and beyond making mistakes. They idolize and worship them blindly --- and so in a case like this, that student seeing their instructor fail, most likely would find some specific excuse why their "hero" didn't win.

I say, "big deal" - they lost - fair and square. You win some and you lose some. It just means that wasn't your time to win or someone was better strategized than you. It really annoys me when a student will look at their instructor with "rose-colored glasses" and make some excuse when this happens.

They lost, big deal, get over it. Next time they'll do better. But I would not be ashamed of them. In some cases, it actually humbles people.

[joesteph]

. . . the individual is a superior fighter, but not . . . an invincible fighter.

After reading Tiger's positng, I edited my original one, above, to what I believe is more on target.

[Wa-No-Michi]

I'm with tallgeese and Tiger here.

Probably should never happen, but if it did, the very fact it escalated into a scrap would be more of a reason to lose respect for someone rather than the outcome of the fight in question.

WNM

[Montana]

Let's suppose you practice karate/taekwondo/kung fu/krav Maga/Jiu Jitsu/Judo, etc (NOT boxing or muay thai).

You happen to be in the same bar as your sensei (or instructor or whatever), but he hasn't seen you. Some dude gets into a fight with him. An obviously huge, menancing guy, but certainly not a mike tyson or Randy Couture.

The dude beats the **** out of your sensei. You sensei tried to fight back and lost fair and square.

Would you lose respect for your sensei? Would you quit the class?

One thing I learned during my 30+ years in the arts is that NOBODY is unbeatable, regardless of system, size or experience. To assume otherwise is foolish.

[sensei8]

Let's suppose you practice karate/taekwondo/kung fu/krav Maga/Jiu Jitsu/Judo, etc (NOT boxing or muay thai).

You happen to be in the same bar as your sensei (or instructor or whatever), but he hasn't seen you. Some dude gets into a fight with him. An obviously huge, menancing guy, but certainly not a mike tyson or Randy Couture.

The dude beats the **** out of your sensei. You sensei tried to fight back and lost fair and square.

Would you lose respect for your sensei? Would you quit the class?

One thing I learned during my 30+ years in the arts is that NOBODY is unbeatable, regardless of system, size or experience. To assume otherwise is foolish.

Solid...I concur!

Would you lose respect for your sensei? Would you quit the class?

YES! Not because he lost...but...because he was no longer the example of what I strife to become, honorable. Getting into a cheap bar fight isn't what I'd want for a Sensei. Is he in control over his thoughts or are his thoughts, obviously misguided, in control of him?