Time spent on kata

[BDPulver]

Theres many aspects to learning a kata. Alot of narrowed down the generalization on it so far.

One can be taught a kata in a days time sort a speak. But has that person understood what was taught to them??

In general, once you learn the kata you will always practice/learn/adhere to what it's meaning is.

I've been studying isshinryu since 84', ma since 78'. In that time I still dont think I've fully understood the meanings of all my kata's. Empty and weapons. With that being said, I'll sit and practice a kata and all of a sudden learn something new I never noticed before.

So in essence, one can learn the basic form of the kata but to truly master it takes years, sometimes a lifetime.

[Fish]

In my experience 6 to 8 months to be able to perform the kata at a basic level of competence. However, the knowledge of it will be superficial after that period.

One problem with learning new kata for every belt is ending up with a superficial knowledge of too many kata and no in depth knowledge of any of them. I had to perform 11 kata (5 pinans, and 6 advanced kata) for my shodan test. But I was only beginning to understand some of the bunkai of some of the pinan kata. It would be better to concentrate on gaining a thorough knowledge of a few kata than having to know some many imho.

[ninjanurse]

Learning the pattern is easy....knowing it takes a lifetime.

"Understanding is not good enough, you must apply. Knowing is not good enough, you must do."-Bruce Lee

[sensei8]

well our style teaches starting with pinan shodan, which i hear is unusual, and it pretty much takes 6 months to go on to pinan nidan, by then they should be green belt. so i'd say at least 3-6 months each.

Yes, it's unusual for a Okinawan based style to start with Pinan Shodan because Pinan Nidan is usually the first Kata learnt to most Okinawan styles. My style, Shindokan, also starts with Pinan Shodan, but, my Soke had originally started teaching Pinan Nidan first, but, he changed it so that Pinan Shodan was taught first. Why? He felt that Shodan was more easier than Nidan.

Again, as far as how long before whatever, should be left to the sensei and nobody else!

[sensei8]

Learning the pattern is easy....knowing it takes a lifetime.

"Understanding is not good enough, you must apply. Knowing is not good enough, you must do."-Bruce Lee

SOLID!

[Sensei_Suzy]

To fully "learn" a kata is impossible. If you ever stop learning, it doesn't mean you know everything...it means you THINK you know everything, which is a very dangerous state of mind.

In terms of learning the pattern, some people take a month or so, and some people take just one class. For learning the pattern so that it is committed to muscle memory takes even longer. The only way to remedy "thinking" while performing a kata is to commit it to muscle memory and carry on a conversation while performing the kata, or having a ton of distractions going on around you. It takes me anywhere from one night's class to a couple of weeks to learn the pattern of a new kata depending on if my brain wants to remember things that night.

[Sensei_Suzy]

well our style teaches starting with pinan shodan, which i hear is unusual, and it pretty much takes 6 months to go on to pinan nidan, by then they should be green belt. so i'd say at least 3-6 months each.

Yes, it's unusual for a Okinawan based style to start with Pinan Shodan because Pinan Nidan is usually the first Kata learnt to most Okinawan styles. My style, Shindokan, also starts with Pinan Shodan, but, my Soke had originally started teaching Pinan Nidan first, but, he changed it so that Pinan Shodan was taught first. Why? He felt that Shodan was more easier than Nidan.

Again, as far as how long before whatever, should be left to the sensei and nobody else!

In my experience Pinan Nidan was by far the easier kata to learn. The five Pinan kata were created for school children to practice basics so it makes sense that they are sometimes taught first. We learn three very basic kata to practice some blocks and basic punches, as well as two basic stances. We then learn the 3 Naihanchi kata before moving to Pinan Shodan through Godan. I think our progression is based on movement. The three basic kata move forward and back without a turn. Naihanchi kata simply move side to side. Pinan kata is the first place where students in our dojo are confronted with turns.

[Fish]

And yet Naihanchi is reckoned by some practitioners to be one of the most difficult Kata (notwithstanding its seeming simplicity).

[ShoriKid]

Yes, it's unusual for a Okinawan based style to start with Pinan Shodan because Pinan Nidan is usually the first Kata learnt to most Okinawan styles. My style, Shindokan, also starts with Pinan Shodan, but, my Soke had originally started teaching Pinan Nidan first, but, he changed it so that Pinan Shodan was taught first. Why? He felt that Shodan was more easier than Nidan.

Again, as far as how long before whatever, should be left to the sensei and nobody else!

I started with Pinan Sho, then the next generation (a group coming through about three years after in a large group) started with Pinan Nidan. The foot work was easier in Nidan by many's reconning.

Naihanchi kata simply move side to side.

and

And yet Naihanchi is reckoned by some practitioners to be one of the most difficult Kata (notwithstanding its seeming simplicity).

I'm siding with Fish here. Naihanchi seems easy. Timing, body linking, proper stance work etc. make it far more difficult to get a handle on than some thought. I could be biased though, I spent a lot of time on Nainhanchis and after I got over the initial hate of the repetition to dig into the content, I loved them.

[Seija]

I was always taught that there are four stages to kata. 1) Learning kata 2) Knowing kata 3) Owning kata 4) Mastering kata

Learning a kata is getting to know which move goes where etc. This can take one class or many depending on the difficulty of the kata and how quickly you learn.

Knowing a kata is being able to do all the moves in sequence without assistance. This can take several months.

Owning a kata is running a kata so diligently that it has become a part of you. Someone can wake you out of a dead sleep and ask you to perform a kata that you haven’t run in months and it is so much a part of who you are that you are able to run the kata without error. This typically takes several years.

Mastering a kata is knowing all that can be learned from the kata and is a lifelong journey that is never complete.