Time spent on kata

[nacal]

Jhoon Rhee stated in his books that each form would be performed a minimum of 300 times before being allowed to graduate for the next rank. But, I would think that quality of the reps would be as important as quantity.

I totally agree with bushido_man 96, I have completed well over 300 reps over the years of one particular kata.

But only in the last 30 times have begun to really learn about the various aspects - bunkai, the individual moves involved, breathing, stances... etc.

On the more advanced katas the minimum time should be 6 months or at least 10 -20 times a week.

But it can be said that sometimes, the more time spent doing kata can cause you to lose focus and just run by the numbers.

[joesteph]

But it can be said that sometimes, the more time spent doing kata can cause you to lose focus and just run by the numbers.

I enjoy finding bunkai in the forms I learn. My teacher has told us some things as we move along, which I'm glad for, but I'd love to practice them separately from the form. I am welcome to ask questions, usually if it's bunkai I think I see, but those occur at odd times, since there's a class for her to run.

I don't mind at all if I'm studying a form for twice as long as "usual" if I'm dissecting it.

I wonder if it's not until Shodan/Chodan that there's more emphasis on the why rather than the how.

[nacal]

for kata, bunkai is an interesting thing.

Only recently have I been realised that there are multitudes of bunkai applications for each move in kata.

Maybe I wasn't thinking to deeply about it or just wasn't listening but it really opened my eyes when my senior instructor said for homework we were to come up with five unknown bunkai for our grading kata.

A world of possibilities...

[JoiH]

I agree with most of the posters here in that it can take a lifetime to really "get to know" a kata. I have been training Heian Nidan for 17 years now and really feel that I have so much more to learn. For testing purposes our dojo usually has the students learn 4-5 katas a year, but the ideal is to take these katas and make a life long study of the techniques.

[wouldbemaster]

Katas take four months to learn and fourty years to master.

Also an interest previous comment earlier was around reasons for studing kata, just for grades, to learn the true art etc etc.

Has anyone stopped to assess what each kata fundamentally teaches you for example Pinans focusing in on power generation etc. It is a very eye openning experience.

Also has anyone tried to develop a full kata that expresses your art and could be used to train others. a great learning experience.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Also has anyone tried to develop a full kata that expresses your art and could be used to train others. a great learning experience.

I haven't, but then I think it is tough eneough to absorb the key nine katas of my style - and the principles contained in them - let alone trying to invent even more.

I am sure this has it learning merits, but personaly I would rather spend the time expanding upon the the bits of my kata that were delibereatly left "lose" in order to play with the finer wado principles and dovetail them into your Kumite (be that Yakusoku, Ohyo, Kihon, Jiyu etc.)

Just my thoughts.

WNM

[quinteros1963]

Thanks to you all. As time goes on I am still learning things from some of the first katas I've learned. I am pulling self defense and kumite from them.

[sensei8]

Considering that during the early years of Goju students spent nearly a year or more learning one kata (this is what I've been told), what do you think is an acceptable time to spend learning a kata before moving on to a new one?

An acceptable time? That varies...doesn't it? Are we asking for the next rank test? Are we asking for knowing the embusen? Are we asking for knowing the steps from start to finish? Is my student handicapped in any way?

1 year...1 month...1 day...1 week...1 semester? What is an acceptable time for a student to go from, ie Heian Shodan to Heian Nidan? When the students practiced it 300...500...1000? Why is that enough or isn't enough?

Is the kata being taught understood? Understood partially? Understood completely? When can someone ever completely understand anything in the martial arts, especially kata?

Is the kata being performed done perfectly? Is perfect enough? Is the student a natural at kata? Is the student a kata champion? Is that enough, to be kata champion? Has the student reached a new zenith in the kata?

Is the acceptable way the same for all students across the board? Or are there other parameters that need to be considered from one student to another? What does the sensei say? What does the organization say? What does the grandmaster say?

Has Bunkai been considered? Has Oyo Bunkai been considered? Has knowing the history of the said Kata been considered? What does the syllabus say? Does the syllabus about the Kata matter?

Nothing can be etched into stone, this is for sure!

Therefore, my answer is this...Whenever I determine that my student is ready for learning the next Kata! Not my Hombu! Not my Dai-Soke! Not nobody but myself! When the time is right...that time/moment will present itself in its own time/moment...not until then.

Is this vague? No...it's my way for what I've determined as to be appropriate for all of my students. My students are here to learn how to defend themselves in the most effective way possible...not to worry about when they get to learn the next kata for the next testing cycle!

Never rush...this is what I tell my students...rushing can only invite failure...let time present itself when time is ready to do so! Time will take care of itself, therefore, shut up and just train...on the present and previous kata's! I'm still training in kata...day after day...and I've been doing this for over 4 decades...this journey never satisfies itself...it's never pleased with my efforts....there's always something to discover/reveal on my path...no matter!

An acceptable time? What's that? Since when did time become the Sensei?

[joesteph]

An acceptable time? That varies...doesn't it? Are we asking for the next rank test? . . .

Is the kata being taught understood? . . .

Has Bunkai been considered? . . .

Therefore, my answer is this...Whenever I determine that my student is ready for learning the next Kata! . . .

My students are here to learn how to defend themselves in the most effective way possible...not to worry about when they get to learn the next kata for the next testing cycle! . . .

Excellent observations, Bob, as the forms are not a dance but have MA meaning, that the teacher knows his or her students, and that this process isn't only about taking a test for a new color belt or additional stripe.

[FushinRyu]

well our style teaches starting with pinan shodan, which i hear is unusual, and it pretty much takes 6 months to go on to pinan nidan, by then they should be green belt. so i'd say at least 3-6 months each.