Is America Doing the right thing.

[--]

America harnessed immense power afterward. Just look at the way it strutted around the Nazi trials and Russia afterward. Just look at all the propaganda and war movies. It's sickening.

 

The simple fact is that there is no humanity left in the American ideal. Everybody is restrained by laws, like dogs on leashes. Just look at the absurd amount of laws we have on everything. Why? Because people are fanatics. They will go to any length possible for anything.

 

Tell me, who needs laws, good people or criminals?

 

 

[BlueDragon1981]

Dude this isnt a anti american thread its about if you think they did the right thing about 9-11 not dis everything they do.

 

I was talking more of the lines of the humanity of the world. Its not just america that wants power. So please keep it to a nice opinion on the subject at hand.

 

-:

 

[van_damme]

I would have 2 agree with blue dragon..there is alot of things i dont like about USA..i could be here all day..but USA is the leading country in the world and is the most powerful country in the world..but look what happened 2 russia..russia was the leading country in the world with usa..but now the russian econemy has collapsed..maybe one day it can happen 2 USA..u never now.

 

As for usa on the sept 11 event..i feel they have done the right thing..they had the right to go into afghanistan and to kick butt..BUT..they should not have killed innocent people..coz they did,they should have gone in..and just kill the taliban and get bin laden..well that my opinion

[Don Gwinn]

Interesting. I've always been told by people from the UK that the government has the right to step in and stop publication of things they consider "state secrets" without much explanation of what that means. That would not be allowed in the U.S. Also, as I hear it, you have several laws pertaining to "hate speech" not unlike those in Canada, which allow you to be prosecuted if you say or publish things which are found to be hurtful to a given ethnic group. Now, I don't like that kind of speech any more than the next guy, but it is a basic tenet of American philosophy that it's not free speech if only popular speech is protected.

 

There's nothing you can say or publish in the U.S. that can get you punished by the government as long as it's true. Can you say that about the UK?

 

"Self-censorship" is an oxymoron. If a person restrains himself for whatever reason, free speech is no compromised. It's his choice. If he is forced to do so, that is censorship.

 

 

[--]

Ok, I came on too strong.

 

Let's start from square one: What do you think America is doing, that we should judge to be right or wrong?

 

 

[Zaknafein]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that a nation that boasts freedom was hoplessly entrenched in slavery? A man could sit there, talking about liberty and justice, then go home and rape his black slave..or beat his wife (i guess when they said that all men are equal, they MEANT it..).

 

 

 

Anyways, back to the discussion..

 

 

 

One thing that I noticed (..ok, I didnt, but my Social Studies teacher did ) was that the US has recently been waging wars of a different type. They dont use their military muscle as much, but their economic strength. Just look at how many internation..uh..bitches America has. If a third world country needs a dam built, the US employs an American company to do it. They could just give this ailing nation the skills and money to do it themselves, but noooo..they'd rather not have the country too independent. They donate money, sure, but ofcourse it has to have one of the hallmarks of free market economy attatched to it - interest.

 

I have sometimes wondered what kind of world a country like America can make if it wasnt so damned self-serving. But ofcourse, I kinda doubt that a capitalist economy could ever hope to function without selfishness..

 

Please dont confuse me for a person who mindlessly hates the US. I think it is a great step in the right direction for humanity. Also, its nice to kinda have a 'big brother' to kinda help keep the world from destroying itself. Imagine the international scene without such an obvious role model for third world countries and also a peacemaker (even if it is THEIR type of peace).

 

I know this post is gunna be shot to hell because I am a little shaky on this topic..im such an innocent lil (well..not little anymore, heheh *pats belly*) fool...but oh well.

 

 

 

 

[Zaknafein]

"What do you think America is doing, that we should judge to be right or wrong? "

 

Well..I have posted already some of what I see as wrongs commited by America, and also some of what it has done right. The thing is, however..what country, state, city, community, or person hasnt done somethings right or wrong? Why are we even posting on this thead (I know I did too, but I just thought of this post - and I am not going to edit my previous post)? I was wrong when I said that the capitalists are the only ones who are selfish. One of the reasons that the USSR collapsed was because the founders believed that the people would put aside their self-interests for the greater good. It is a trait common to all human kind.

 

The things wrong with the US are the things wrong with all of humanity. I have to say that America is a far better world leader than any other country would be (thats not democratic).

 

I dont like the proud, headstrong, and ignornt (about other countries) Americans any more than most people not American do, but the thing is, wouldnt anybody be like that if they were a citizen of the most powerful country in the world? The British sure were when they owned half the globe.

 

I ask again: why are we even debating this? Might as well debate the merrits of..of..some small, insignificant country (like Canada! ). I mean, come on, these little debates have more to do with dislike than trying to change anything.

 

Bhul Chuk Maff (forgive any mistakes)

 

-Zak..the..um..Pro American? ewww....

 

_________________

 

Feel the 'Putt Jattan De' power!!

 

*Truth is highest, but Truthful living is higher still*

 

[ This Message was edited by: zaknafein on 2002-07-13 06:02 ]

[Don Gwinn]

Well, I don't find it funny. Yes, it was a bad double standard. However, it ended 135 years ago. Racism continues, of course, but let's have the first person who can claim to come from a nation that doesn't have a deep racism problem step up and throw the first stone. Have you Brits licked the National Front and all their Paki-bashing buddies yet? You Canadians--has Ernst Zundel packed up and closed down the Zundelsite? Surely he has, I mean, you passed all those anti-free-speech laws, and we all know that more laws and regulations solve problems.

 

It was Brits who brought slavery to the U.S. before it was the U.S., and British common law at the time emphasized freedom more than almost any other system then in existence. As a matter of fact, if you read the Declaration of Independence carefully, you'll notice that it's basically a list of violations committed by the King against British legal and social traditions of personal freedom and self-determination.

 

The only reason the Brits didn't bring slavery to Canada in the same strength was that the economy in Canada wasn't based on a system that required slave labor the way the cotton industry in the South was.

 

At the time, most people considered "man" and "negro" to be two different things. "Man" referred to a white man. To say that all men had freedom while black men were in chains was not inconsistent to their way of thinking. Those who saw it that way considered themselves too few in number.

 

I always find it funny when Brits make fun of the U.S. and try to act superior because they ended slavery before we did. All that means is that the economic incentive for slavery didn't exist in Britain as it did in the American South. Don't believe me? If it was a moral crusade, why did Britain throw its lot in with the South during the Civil War?

 

Because they needed the cotton to keep their economy going. They were willing to buy cotton picked by slaves and snuck past Union blockades in order to keep their mills running; if they'd been able to do so by keeping slaves, they'd have done it.

 

 

[--]

All political issues aside, let's examine the general attitude of the citizens. In all my experience, I have to say that Americans tend to be somewhat paranoid. They are very forceful people, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

 

Europeans tend to be more casual, and just let people have their way. Just get on with life, let the world move along. I would like to see a more accepting and harmonic attitude in America's people. I dunno about y'all, but that's just me.

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

I shall strive for harmony with all things.

 

 

If Europeans are so harmonious and casual, why do they seem to be taking every opportunity to cut America off at the knees on this forum? I realize we're the biggest target, but it doesn't seem very harmonious to me.