Youths vs. Adults

[Killer Miller]

I'm starting a new thread of youths vs. adults with feedback of a previous post. I think there was a misunderstanding of the comparison of the difference of the two, so I will clarify my point of view in this thread and open this thread up for general discussion on the topic.

In my opinion, youths are easier to train and mold into karate-ka for the following reasons.

Youth Positive:

• - They have a fresh mind that is eager to learn and explore things in life - clear thinkers. Less questions asked and pretty much do what you ask of them.
   
  - Their bodies have not developed fully and it is easy to develop a muscle structure that benefits a karate-ka in the future.
   
  - They are more relaxed and more limber for the most part (less life distractions) and are easier to teach basic body actions/fundamentals in terms of stances, hip rotation, breathing concepts, etc.
   
  - Youth reaction timing is very good for the most part.

Youth Negative:

• - Home issues sometimes affect their attention span – abuse, medical issues, school pressures, etc.
   
  - Bodies not fully developed to implement some of the concepts taught.
   
  - Taking Karate only because their parents want them to – perhaps parents use to be in karate as well, or defense of being picked on all the time.

However, adults commonly, with the exception of a few, are more difficult to teach. They will get it in time, but takes longer for them to “get it.”

Adult Positive:

• - Adults have more developed muscle mass required for effective implementation of training concepts – stronger technique.
   
  - They have a lot of experience in “general” – easier to recognize and apply various fighting/attacking concepts.
   
  - Adults attend training generally because they want to learn and not because they were told to attend.

Adult Negative:

• - Many of life’s daily pressures affect attention span of training concepts – thinking about job and bills instead of an empty mind for training.
   
  - Commonly muscle mass pre-developed for other sports that is not beneficial for Karate concepts – example, using too much upper body because they are muscle bound. The result is they are slow, stiff, and walk like a robot…
   
  - In our analytical society, adults tend to want to analyze everything you teach wasting valuable training time for others when teaching critical curriculum for development of Karate concepts – instead of learning by doing and letting the instructor explain/clarify concepts when they see a problem with someone or when the time is right to clarify why you are having them do something.
   
  - Adults have many bad habits from experience of other sports or arts that are difficult for them to break – “I’ve been doing it this way for 20 years, why should I do it this way…” It’s difficult for them to understand that they have done it wrong for 20 years and many of them take a long time to change…

These are a few of the key pros and cons of Youths vs. Adults. There are many more, but lets leave some for thread discussion. This is not intended to be the type of thread of "none of my students do this, you must be teaching them wrong...," but a factual discusion of the pros and cons of Youths vs. Adults in Karate training.

- Killer -

[Wa-No-Michi]

Hi Killer,

Good to see the old gray cells at work here -

I enjoy teaching both adults and kids (for all of the reasons you mention), but tbh I think I have come to a bit of an impasse with my own training where I feel that I can no longer teach the kids in our group as well as they deserve to be taught.

I would say that the adult class that I teach is more of a study group really, with lots of like minded dan grades really drilling down into the core principles of the art.

It's at a level that you just cant communicate to a bunch of kids with. I wouldn't say they could not understand it, but in the short spot that we do have to teach our kids it would be lost on 98%.

So you have to teach to your strengths, and this is where I am lucky enough to have a couple of very competent dan grade senpias to run the kids classes (with the old boy sticking his nose in now and then ).

WNM

[Killer Miller]

I agree with you, training in a class of veteran black belts is definately second to none... It's a matter of responsibility to teach less progressed levels, or progress your own level of progressions. I could say time management, but that's not always possible either....

And you're right, I have plenty of Gray Cells lol...

- Killer -

[akedm]

Thanks Killer for starting this thread. You already addressed most of what I found interesting from your quote in the other thread.

"a factual discusion of the pros and cons of Youths vs. Adults in Karate training" - Killer

A topic I would like discussed addresses your issue with adults. When should adults just be quiet and learn: While you're talking (of course), but maybe for a few classes, maybe when learning a new move, etc??

In other words when do you think adults should just chill out and breathe and let their bodies do the learning first? And when do you think they should ask questions: after some time - minutes, hours, a few classes; or after some time when learning new stuff; or 'only on Wednesdays!' = questions day ??

Obviously you're open to questions. I'm wondering what your (and other instructors) preference would be on this, and what do you to to encourage it.

Thanks.

[Killer Miller]

Unfortunately, there are many reasons for Adults piping off.

Stress - not in tune with the current world and just not listening. You tell them to do something, and it's "what, I don't understand."

Ego - wants everyone to know that he/she knows all and just talks to sound inteligent.

Attention Getter - a person that is always looking for the center of attention and has to ask a question every 5 minutes just to be the center of attention.

Medical/mental reasons - this covers a wide spectrum from bi-polar, ADD, etc.

Lack of Understanding - these are persons that have a totally different perspective as to what Karate (or any oth MA) is really all about. So "everything" becomes a question....

The best way to learn is to Do. Explanations of new and unusual concepts typically go in one ear and out the other. Most practitioners want to just get to business and do. Explanations are necessary, but only after the body action is introduced enough to where if you explain it, it will sink down into the body and not out the other ear.

Hope that answers you question.

- Killer -

[akedm]

Yep, I understand what you mean.

Thank you.

[bushido_man96]

I think that you make some good points, Killer. I think that children are more open to learning new things.

I think that many adults want to know "why" because they want to have a reason behind what they are doing. I think a common thing tends to be asking why the hand is drawn back to the ribs, and not kept up like a Boxer does it. I would guess that is just one thing of many that you get questioned about. Its easier with kids, because they tend to put more trust in what an adult is showing them.

Not that adults don't trust, its just that they don't wait to see why, like the kids might.

[Fish]

It can depend on the age of the kids as well. Where I train some of the kids are quite young, and they find it hard to concentrate on doing one thing for any length of time. So they start chatting and messing about instead of learning karate.

I started learning as an adult in my 30s. My main problems were lack of (physical) flexibility - that resolved over time with stretching, although I still have to work on it; and I find it difficult to grasp and remember complex body movements. I find grappling and takedowns especially difficult to absorb.

[Killer Miller]

Yea, Kids are definately another issue. That's why I stated Youths - meaning the more mature youths probably 10yrs old to teen ages. Under 10 is definately a shorter attention span - usually about 10 seconds lol...

- Killer -

[todome]

Kids:

pro - more easily entertained as long as you keep them moving

con - not as quick on the uptake of the more general concepts so, for example, when you tell them to drop their weight they bend their knees and call it a day

put it together - can be introduced to the broader concepts underlying techniques by patiently breaking down the factors involved into more simplified progressions. a logical series of drills that thrills the kids could very well just make the adults impatient.

Adults:

pro - pride themselves on thinking so as long as you keep on yakking sensibly they think they're getting their money's worth

con - basically sick of working up a sweat

put it together - successfully demonstrate and challenge them to discover the efficiency of movement upon which tha art is built and you'll have a roomful junkies falling over themselves to solve a brainteaser. not all of them, but no plan is perfect.