Trapping and Countering a Roundhouse

[bushido_man96]

Define a"adept"? I can usually trap a round kick when one gets to waist level or better at least once each time I'm up with someone if I think about doing it. Not bragging, I'm just good at getting kicked!

Hey, you and me both!

The video example is the best one to judge because it's live. They cover the movement needed to keep the power out of a kick. Fading ever so slightly can take a huge about off of a kick. You either need to do that or build a shield to eat the force of the kick, wheather to defend or trap.

I agree, especially with the fading. If you notice the position of the kicker's base leg foot in that video, you can see that he only pivots to about 90 degrees. If that is the case, then that kick isn't going to deliver a lot of power past where the kicker finished it, because he has cut off the use of his hips and has effectively stopped his kick on his own. At that point, any target not directly in front of him isn't going to receive the optimum power of the kick.

The only thing I'll do differently is on occassion set the trip up from the trapped kick. If I get the kick I'll grap the same side shoulder and give a little pull while putting a check/kick to the front of the opposing shin of the supporting legs. With a little torque to go along, the kicker is thrown down face first. I don't get that one very often until we're worn down. The kicking range tends to close down then and I can get a grip.

I'd never seen that approach before, but I like it!

[Otto]

Couple of thoughts -

If you're a fairly athletic kicker, throw your roundhouse with the INTENTION of getting it trapped. Immediately spin, throwing either a spinning hook, wheel or reverse crescent kick (obviously depending on distance). It's a great trap/set up. The counter to this would be to LET GO of the caught leg, in which case the kicker would spin himself into the ground.

As a counter to a roundhouse kick (instead of trapping it)....from a side stance (or close to it) when someone roundhouses to the head, especially with the front leg, use your front hand to slap block and use the slap block to propel you into a sinning hook kick to the face of the kicker. Obviously, you have to have a proficient spin kick, but if you do you'll find you'll hit with the spin BEFORE their kick can retract to the ground.

The slap block is more than a block, it is what starts your spin. The block is almost an afterthought compared to the rotation.

[tonydee]

I'm also unimpressed by the original four efforts.

kickboxing video/dodge & grasp over kicking leg: if the opponent tracks your movement you still end up wearing the power of the kick into unprotected ribs. Especially if the attacker uses a ball-of-the-foot turning kick, or aims it well (e.g. floating rib) - you're in real trouble. It's assuming the kick will come in under shoulder height too - what happens if the kick is unexpectedly high? That back palm seen in Jan-yu Weng/#3 isn't super strong, but it's infinitely better than having no backup as per this video. A good attacker will anticipate the grab attempt too, and be moving to bend the kicking leg and come into striking range, take themselves down to the ground on their own terms, try the all-or-nothing spinning heal, or do whatever else they're keen on. This #1 style of grab doesn't give the fastest movement into the counter attack, so there's more time and opportunity for the kicker to follow up.

Taejoon Lee/throw: I've done something similar in Hapkido. One of those counters that relies on being massively better than your opponent, and is therefore not much use for anything but prearranged demonstrations or beating up beginners. As shown, at step 3 the front arm is bent in too close to the chest, and a strong kicking movement would go straight through it. Both arms are engaged and Mr Lee's brought his right temple into range of the kicker's jab. If you've done well enough to anticipate the kick and move early enough to pull this off, you could as easily have done some other counter that provides more "return on investment" than a throw that might not even do any damage....

Jan-yu Weng: As already commented on, the kicking hip isn't rotated in, and a stronger kick would have given more trouble. The kick has been collected on the inside of the left arm and/or shoulder: these aren't the best place to take impact. If the kick comes in waist height... it will probably knock your elbow into your own ribs and you won't get a hold. If it comes up too shoulder high, the shock travels across your shoulders and won't do your neck or head any favours. If it's high enough for the palm to come into play, then it's questionable how effective the palm can be. Getting from step 2 to 3 without collecting a jab is also uncertain, although the kicker here has been foolish enough to tuck the arms back towards his own head instead of keeping them aligned at the target.

Sports jujutsu/Ernie Boggs: step 1 as shown is interesting: IF the defender has first blocked solidly with the right forearm while more side on, then slipped sideways into a more frontal position to bring the left arm under the kick and grab, then this is credible. You can absorb take enormously more kicking power from a block in front of your chest than the palm block seen from Jan-yu Weng above, especially if the block makes contact early, before the kick is locking out. BUT, if the defender first blocked a bit side on as shown, then it does indeed look like their neck and/or jaw's going to have taken a blow. The defender is still in range for a counter jab though (obvious from step 2). If the defender got to step 1 and the kicker hadn't jabbed, the defender should have pushed his right arm over the kicker's front arm, preventing the jab and gaining a grip near their right shoulder.

The Aikido one posted by Joe is a bit better than any of the above, though the guy is a bit clumsy, and only when one of the kicks comes in a bit lower does he actually block first with his lower forearm before moving into the takedown. I've also trained some like this technique in Hapkido. Say I have either leg forward, and the kicker is using their right leg: I'll also dodge slightly as per the kickboxing video, though it could be inwards (catching the kick before it's had time to extend powerfully) or outwards (catching it after the focus). If my left leg is forward, I'll turn my hips to be a bit more frontal so the arms are stronger. I'll block low with my left forearm and high with my right, so my right elbow is about the same height as my left and fairly close to it: vertically over the halfway point of the left forearm. Thus, I'm covering everything from hip to head with a forearm block, and will adjust my arms to ensure the kick doesn't arrive where my elbows meet. Only after the block has taken the power out of the kick do I slip the left arm under the kicking leg and circle it clockwise until it is back in front of my left chest (if my left leg is forward) or right shoulder, palm almost towards the attacker, fingers facing between 'diagonally up/right' or 'horizontally right' respectively. While doing that, my right arm ensures the kick is trapped against the outside of my upper forearm, and prevents any secondary turning kick to the head. As my left arm circles over the kicking leg, I grab the wrist with my right hand, and pull downwards in a slight arc towards my right hip, bringing the opponent down. Despite sounding complicated, the movements are all simple, small and fast - quite minimal, you've got a distinct blocking stage's hard to penetrate and doesn't give much warning that you're going to try a take down, you're never close enough for the opponent to grab or jab, and the take down moves directly into a pinning lock. It is vulnerable to the all-or-nothing spinning heal, but that's a low percentage technique and if you look out for it you'll have time to block or avoid the worst of it.

Cheers, Tony

[Kempohands]

I found tonydee's post fantastically informative and helpful, especially the points made about the faults of the previously mentioned techniques in the thread.

I like the approach that the aikido sensei took to the kick, and the technique tonydee described at the end of his post, and I'd like to add a method of defending that I've found good success with so far in my martial arts career for defending against the roundhouse kick.

I tend to trap mid-level roundhouse kicks, as I can't reach leg kicks and have many better options for myself against low ones, and I tend to notice a head kick and avoid it because I'm not comfortable trying to trap a head kick and risking a knockout. Now, when I notice a roundhouse kick that is coming at torso level, I will often try to trap it. I often attempt to stop a roundhouse kick by bring my elbow to strike/block my opponent's shin, with my other forearm block supporting in case the elbow misses his/her shin (I don't think that makes the best sense, but it's the best I can do to describe the block at the moment). As soon as I feel the leg make contact with one or both of my arms, I use one arm to wrap over the top or underneath the leg, depending on my fighting stance in relation to which foot my opponent kicked with, and attempt a sweep of the other leg with my free hand up on guard against any punches which may be thrown by my opponent.

Really, my technique is not much different from the kickboxing video after the trap occurs, but what I really like is the elbow to shin idea. I find it easiest to do against roundhouse kicks, but I try it against straight kicks as well, dropping the elbow on an opponent's shin as he or she kicks, while fading off line or away from the focal point of the kick of course.

It's funny, as soon as my sensei says "takedowns" during a sparring class we all decrease our frequency of roundhouse kicks...

[tonydee]

Sounds good Kempohands... safe and practical, especially if you keep the front leg ready to lift to protect from lower kicks, and - as you say - use that front hand to protect yourself as you perform the sweep. Gives you lots of good options for front leg kicks as well as the sweep....

Cheers, Tony

[ryukasagi]

I tend to just catch the kick and ten just trip the other person with one of my legs, however i can manage it