Trapping and Countering a Roundhouse

[joesteph]

Trapping rather than catching a kick is the usual term used. I wondered if the examples I've come across are feasible. There are counter-moves as the follow-up, but they can be used only if the leg is under your control.

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The following is a video from Expert Village:

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/16054_kickboxing-technique-catch-kick.htm

It seems like a lot of absorption by the body to trap the kick.

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The following from the September 2000 issue of Black Belt looks more like a trap:

http://books.google.com/books?id=bM8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT5&dq=Black+Belt&lr=&source=gbs_toc_pages&cad=0_1#PPT33,M2

It's also against the body but appears more feasible.

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This second one from the October 1999 Black Belt is to the head and also looks like a trap:

http://books.google.com/books?id=nM4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA3&dq=Black+Belt&lr=&source=gbs_toc_pages&cad=0_1#PPA34,M1

But was it actually to the head or just a high roundhouse, as the caption reads? Could it have been to the head, but the block let it slip down to along the shoulder, where it was trapped? Would that be a credible explanation for what's demonstrated?

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This one from the January 1999 Black Belt has no block demonstrated, and it looks like the roundhouse made impact against the neck, but it's shown as trapped and then countered.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Sc8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA5&dq=Black+Belt&lr=&source=gbs_toc_pages&cad=0_1#PPA66,M1

Is this a case of the idea being sound, but the execution flawed from the start?

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Do any members find themselves fairly adept at trapping a roundhouse and countering by a strike or takedown? If so, do you use any of the techniques shown above?

[Patrick]

Nice thread, joesteph.

[JusticeZero]

Looks a bit like cruz, which isn't obvious in dynamics from photoes..

in it, one dips and shifts, then brings the arm up to contact the kick along the forearm at an angle. The angle means that the kick loses energy sliding rather than discharging in a single impact. When it approaches the shoulder the energy is mostly gone and one can continue the upward swing with the arm to leave the only exit above the head. Once that is done, step in and do whatever you like with the base leg, being careful not to allow them to take you down by scissors.

[tallgeese]

Not real adept, but I will use them when the opportunity presents itself. It's usually after I've screwed up and been tagged, but I happend to get ahold of the kicking leg.

Mostly, when I do a takedown off a trap, it's most reminicient of your video. Then I'll utilize a inside reap like the next two articles if I can.

Sometimes, you can get adaquate force for a takedown just based on yanking the leg and twisting. I'll also add on a trip from this motion as well to aid in the takedown if the distance it right.

More recently, I've started incorporting high single leg takedowns from wrestling from this position. Most people will quicly pull the foot back once they realize it's trapped and wil lgive you the opportunity to "run the pipe" alont the leg and either trip or spiral from there.

Just some thoughts. It's been working out pretty well for me.

[bushido_man96]

The first example has an advantage of being able to utilize the strategy from either an open or a closed off sparring stance in relation to the opponent. You'll also notice that the defender steps off-line, to soften the blow of the kick, which will make the absorption more effective. This first example also only utilizes one arm to trap the kick, leaving the other to bring the pain.

In the last Strikeforce fight, I saw this strategy used effectively at least twice.

Taejoon Lee's second example ends up using both hands to tie up the kick. You also have to worry about fishing the cross-side arm under the knee; I'm not saying it couldn't work, but there seems to be a lot going on there. You also tie up both of your arms, instead of having one of them free.

The third example looks much like the second, but if the kick is done higher, then it appears that it would be easier to fish that arm under. Again, your wrap up both hands, but in this case, with the head being the target, it may be easier to trap from underneath than from over the top.

In the fourth, I would definitely try to have a hand up to block that kick, but that is just me. If you are going to take the kick, just as well try to grab it, too. Those high takedowns can be brutal on the kicker, too.

I do like some of the ideas shown here, and I think that working on trapping kicks like this is a good idea. Finding one that works and training it will be beneficial, for sure. This is one thing that we don't train a lot on; most of what we do is countering a kick with a kick, as opposed to catching or trapping it.

[Prostar]

I really didn't like any of the examples in the original post.

In the first video the guy actually lets the kick get to his ribs. I did like that he moved with it to take some of the power off.

In the first BB mag example it looks like he caught it with his left hand while sliding the right up behind the leg. You eat a lot of kicks trying to catch like that. Besides, it hurts the fingers often.

BB mag examples 2 and 3 looked like they popped the right hand up there to stop a back leg round house kick. Any decent kick is going right through that hand.

[sensei8]

Do any members find themselves fairly adept at trapping a roundhouse and countering by a strike or takedown? If so, do you use any of the techniques shown above?

Depends!

Depends on the speed of which the roundhouse kick was delivered. Sometimes the kick is way too fast to trap as shown in the OP examples. Power/angle as well as speed all combined together back the examples difficult to execute. Impossible? Nothing's impossible!

Many parameters are involved in this type of a trap being successful, imho. Seeing that we're different across the board; i.e. weight, height, structure, skill, and the like, it's difficult to say without reservation that these types of trapping of a roundhouse kick is to assume that I'm superior to my opponent. Am I? Are you? Today/tomorrow?

I've done more seizing than trapping, and there's a difference. Trapping is holding onto the given weapon; capturing. Seizing is denying it's continued path completion; delaying.

Miss a trap to the head and you're knocked out! Missed a trap to the body and you're ribs are broken! Impossible? Nothing's impossible!

[joesteph]

I've done more seizing than trapping, and there's a difference. Trapping is holding onto the given weapon; capturing. Seizing is denying it's continued path completion; delaying.

Is seizing another way of saying a strong block that arrests the forward motion of the kick, Bob? Is it usually based on force, such as raising both arms against a roundhouse to the head to stop it in its tracks?

[joesteph]

This sensei practices Aikido, and has a different takedown from the others. He also gives greater warning about the power of the roundhouse and where you should confront it. He calls it "leg nikyo."

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/118576_leg-nikyo-against-roundhouse-kick.htm

[ShoriKid]

Define a"adept"? I can usually trap a round kick when one gets to waist level or better at least once each time I'm up with someone if I think about doing it. Not bragging, I'm just good at getting kicked!

The examples you've posted all have some merit, just not all ones I would go for. The video example is the best one to judge because it's live. They cover the movement needed to keep the power out of a kick. Fading ever so slightly can take a huge about off of a kick. You either need to do that or build a shield to eat the force of the kick, wheather to defend or trap.

The second example, I think he turns and takes the leg over his head or shoulder as part of that throw. Not sure if i would ever go there. The rest of the examples you see one arm or shoulder used to each up the force of the kick. The other is either guiding it down into the shield to set up the trap or the body angled a bit to take the sting off of things. Still photos don't really show the body movement and way the kick and blocks play in together. Now how most of the people exicuting the trap and throws step in and either use a major or minor reap is about what I end up doing most of the time. It will absolutley steal someone's wind and will if you go for the minor reap at the ankle level when it was a high kick. The higher they kick, the harder they fall.

The only thing I'll do differently is on occassion set the trip up from the trapped kick. If I get the kick I'll grap the same side shoulder and give a little pull while putting a check/kick to the front of the opposing shin of the supporting legs. With a little torque to go along, the kicker is thrown down face first. I don't get that one very often until we're worn down. The kicking range tends to close down then and I can get a grip.

Trapping a kick is something that you have to drill to get the sensitivity in order for them to work. Not something I count on as a kicking defense, but it's like any other trapping skill, it's good to have in the tool box.