Punching and Kicking

[Bastich]

As i have mentioned on other posts i am returning to Shotokan Kararte after a 15 year absence. Something i have always wondered about is the usefulness of kicks. I have a good boxing background mixed with my total lack of flexibility (not through lack of effort) and i tend to favour punches during sparring. I find i use kicks only as a method of keeping my opponent at a distance.

Am i restricting myself by not stretching myself further with my kicking or do people find that kicking tends to leave you open to counters?

[Dobbersky]

ShotoKan uses a lot of hand defences and Strikes anyway and if we go back to our Okinawan roots most kicks were actually no higher that waist hieght anyway.

A good thigh Kick is ample whilst sparring as is less easy to be grabbed.

Although for Gradings etc (sorry not too sure what level you are) Jodan kicks are required at more senior levels.

Osu!!!

[Kuma]

Kicks and knees can be pretty devastating weapons, but outside the ring they tend to be below the waist.

Basic law enforcement defensive tactics teaches us cops the low kick (roundhouse kick to the outer thigh). Most guys don't train it much beyond that, but being an "in your face" kind of sparrer I like it a lot.

Last Saturday I actually got to use it for the first time on the job. We had a guy get chased out of a local bar for being drunk and belligerent, we sent him home, and he ended up popping back up in our territory causing trouble again. He was a pretty decent sized guy (around 240), overweight but still willing to put up a fight. My partner on the wagon kept him distracted, I got into range, and WHAM dropped a hard one right on his thigh. He dropped like a sack of potatoes. A half-minute of scuffling on the ground and he was handcuffed.

Only downside of using that kick that night was when we got him to the jail his leg was so cramped up he couldn't walk so we had to drag the guy inside. All dead weight too, so not a lot of fun. But yes, kicks can be very useful. A good scoop kick to the shin, a low side kick to the outside of the knee, a hard knee to the thigh, a crushing stomp to the fragile bones of the foot, and even your good ole snap kick to the buddies are all good, effective techniques.

[Grego]

I use kicks alot when dealing with an opponent that outranges me.

I'm only 5'9, so when sparring people with a greater reach, I have to use what is available to me.

[tallgeese]

You're probibly not limiting yourself too much if you have a handful of kicks in the arsenal. Front to the groin/bladder and shin, round to the quad (maybe floating ribs, maybe), side stomp to the knee and you're pretty much covered from a sd aspect.

As was said, what's required on a grading might be more intesive on the kick side of things. Might want to ask. As for putting together and adaquate thrat response, you'll be fine with a small handful of kicks.

I'm ceratinly not say that a shin to the head isn't a great thing. It's just that, for most of us, taking that much time gain and maintian realistic abilities at that level isn't worth it given the envornmental (and use of force) limitations outside a dojo.

[joesteph]

I have a good boxing background mixed with my total lack of flexibility (not through lack of effort) and i tend to favour punches during sparring. I find i use kicks only as a method of keeping my opponent at a distance.

Do you have any idea why you have a weakness in flexibility, Bastich? I'm asking because I'm exactly the same way, and though I don't know your age, when I was in my thirties (I'm fifty-seven now), I had the same flexibility limitations I have now. The reason I've been able to get back to what I had twenty years ago is because of working at flexibility. I can do side and roundhouse kicks below the belt of a target my own height, and front kicks up to the midsection. If I do an instep-impact instead of a Muay Thai (shin) roundhouse, I can reach up to floating ribs level, but that's all, and it lacks power. I did weight-resistance training for those two decades, so I wondered if it had anything to do with it. When I was in school, there was no introduction/involvement in sports, which might also account for it. Did you train with weights or do sports in the past?

[Wa-No-Michi]

Last Saturday I actually got to use it for the first time on the job. We had a guy get chased out of a local bar for being drunk and belligerent, we sent him home, and he ended up popping back up in our territory causing trouble again. He was a pretty decent sized guy (around 240), overweight but still willing to put up a fight. My partner on the wagon kept him distracted, I got into range, and WHAM dropped a hard one right on his thigh. He dropped like a sack of potatoes. A half-minute of scuffling on the ground and he was handcuffed.

Did you get in trouble over that at all?

WNM

[Kuma]

Not at all WNM. He was posturing and threatening to " us up" and since our physical presence and verbal commands weren't working, we were then allowed to go to the next stage on the force continuum. Technically the low kick to the thigh is considered a "nerve strike" since it doesn't cause any lasting damage and can incapacitate them if you hit the peroneal nerve just right. The report was accepted and they had no problem with it.

[tallgeese]

Nicely done.

[bushido_man96]

Yes, Kuma, kudos to you! I have not had the opportunity to use force like that yet. Around here, they tend to teach more of a knee into the common peroneal down there, and it usually comes with the hands on already. I told my DT partner, though, that I would likely just use the kick at the range, as opposed to getting close, first.

Bastich, kicking skill needs to be developed, just like any other skill (like the hands) if you wish to be effective at it. I don't think that one has to be a high kicker to be an effective kicker, though. So don't assume that because you are not flexible that you can't be a good kicker.

Now with that out of the way, the thing about kicking is that it tends to be trickier to do mainly because of the distance involved; you will likely be a bit further out than arms reach when kicking, but not always.

We tend to have a more natural feel for the range of our arms than we do for the range of our legs, so it takes a bit of extra time to develop that sense of range with our legs, so that we can be effective with them.

Get a partner, and try to work some drills with your kicks, where ever you feel comfortable; low, mid, or hi. Get the feel for where you can kick from, and then experiment with using hand strikes to set up kicks, and kicks to set up hand strikes. Then, work it into your sparring. Like all things, it will come with time.