How many instructors should a student have?

[akedm]

I'm taking a chance by throwing my two cents and my question down here since this is best explored as a discussion rather than a question...or should it be a discussion at all? That's the point of it really: How many instructors should a student have?

I'd like input from instructors and students, but I decided on this forum rather than the general forum.

On one hand a forum like KarateForums.com allows discussion encompassing more than could be explored in the dojo, and it allows for exploration of thoughts and styles not available by a single teacher (wonderful Internet). On the other hand to be a student of a discipline the student should commit to learning from the teacher (emphasis THE teacher, THE = singular) they've chosen. This means trusting and allowing the teacher to dispense their knowledge unencumbered by influence.

Am I getting too much lonely-temple-on-top-of-the-mountain here or what?

Obviously teachers do not mind being challenged by the inquisitiveness of their students, but ma as I understand it often have rules of no talking in class and I'd imagine challenging the teacher (not physically) is a touchy subject too. "Hey I heard this [thing] was better..." or "I don't agree". No one's going to interrupt the professor in the middle of a college lecture, and the same discipline applies here. But I sense there's more of a 'blanket discipline' going on with ma than just accruing college credit by listening to the anthropology professor.

So why is it a touchy subject? Is it because there's a unwritten limit to how many instructors a student should have?

[Grego]

well, I'd say 10-12 students per blackbelt would be ok. If that. My sensei won't take on more than 8 until he gets me to brown belt.

[tallgeese]

I think that a student should have as many insturctors as will be beneficial to him in helping him acheive his goals. This is where cross training comes into play quite a bit.

I've trained under several people simeotanously several times during my career. It's easier as you get "older" so to speak in the arts. It's also easier if the diciplines are closely related or at least share the same end result goals.

Still, if you're training in a strike heavy art, let's even say kickboxing and you want competency with knives and such you're going to have to study with another trainer. So now your working a couple days per week in your primary form- kickboxing; and maybe taking a silat course on a Sat schedule. Now, let's say he want to learn to grapple as well (popular these days) so he adds on a mid week class between his kb classes.

Now, this is a guy with alot of time on his hands, but you see the point. Now he's putting time in learning all the things he's interested in. Eventually, he's going to learn to encorporate them all, but that will be down the line.

If you're lucky, you've got a well rounded guy or two around you school already, so maybe the second "instructor" will be more informal in nature. But your still learning something outside your inital training framework. Hence, a few more instructors.

[joesteph]

When I approached an instructor known for full-contact bouts who could tutor me in simple light-to-moderate sparring (as my art is non-contact), we had our discussion and the understanding was that he would not contact my teacher; I would let her know that I was speaking with him and what it was about. If she had an objection, I would have honored it. What I wanted to set up were three of these sessions on consecutive Saturdays, as private lessons are costly. When it looked like it would be working out, I told my teacher, and she said she had no objection, so long as I did not neglect my studies with her. It turned out that he could not work in the sessions, so I told her. As we spoke, I discovered that he had called her before I had first spoken with her. She told me that she did know who he was (the friend of her then-assistant instructor), and that he was letting her know that he wasn't trying to take a student away from her.

I was extremely disappointed in him; we'd had an understanding. I was glad I'd told her before being turned down by him, so at least I presented myself as an honest man in her eyes. Some time later, she let me know of a self-defense instructor who could take me on Saturdays, so it wouldn't be sparring, let alone light-to-moderate contact sparring, but it would apply more to real-world situations and so would be very useful. I took five sessions with him, learned a lot, and kept my promise to her not to let my studies with her slide.

I wonder if instructors look upon this as a business, just as private college-prep schools do as they compete with one another for college-bound students. Every student pays tuition, and sharing a student with another instructor can be seen as a chance taken in the MA business.

[akedm]

Interesting story, Joe. It sounds as though you handled the situation as you should have. And it also sounds like you received a bit of street knowledge. Yes, I've found in many industries the owners know one another and talk. Life often has fine threads like that connecting each other.

And I'd think that it is generally seen as a business. I think it's a hard pill for instructors to swallow who are actually in it to teach but everyone must turn a profit. An instructors mind in inevitably turned toward money, that's the nature of staying in business. I imagine the stronger instructors manage to maintain their center in their particular discipline, but it's a strain, and yes money's never far from the mind.

As far as their intensity to spread the discipline they teach also being a factor in plucking students from other schools, I do not know.

[bushido_man96]

I agree with tallgeese; you should have as many as you need to learn what you want to learn. If I was to get into a school that told me they would not honor my choice to study elsewhere, then I'd say see ya later. After all, its MY journey through the MAs, not my instructor's.

I've written an article on this very subject, titled Martial Arts "Monogamy". It pretty much sums up my thoughts on this issue.

[akedm]

You know Bushido, I partially read that today at lunch. It reminded me about my concern for the same subject.

Nice, Bushido. I'll re-visit it.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Tiger1962]

I can see where this can be a sensitive issue between instructors and students.

Let's say you have your main instructor and basically you like the way he/she teaches. Once in a while you have a subsitute teacher or know someone from another school that is an instructor who has some technique about him/her or some quality that your regular instructor does not possess.

If your regular teacher is "secure" with himself, I don't think it would or should bother him/her - there are some instructors who would say its ok to practice once in a while with someone else to pick up other things, as long as your main "devotion" (for lack of a better word) is to them and your school.

Then you might have another type of instructor who forbids you training with someone else, forbids you visiting other schools, etc., because it is viewed as disloyal or disrespectful.

This is a topic that needs to be discussed when joining a school so you know what the deal is up front and what is permitted and what isn't. The thing is, people starting martial arts for the first time, don't always know what questions to ask or the right questions to ask.

How many instructors should a student have? Well, my answer is generally, one, HOWEVER, I see NOTHING wrong with training with someone else sometimes. This keeps the student from being stale or locked into training in one habitual manner. (i.e., the teachers way). It certainly is beneficial for the student to mix things up a bit.

My former instructor seemed to have had no problem with us training or visiting other schools as long as we let him/her know ahead of time. That being said, I know a couple of times that I asked to train at another school and the question seemed to make my instructor uncomfortable judging from the body language & the response. Mixed signals here, wouldn't you say?

I was also aware of my former instructor being more lenient with certain students training elsewhere than he/she was if I wanted to train elsewhere. But, nepotism probably played a major factor in that. Which is one reason I no longer train there.

[DWx]

Obviously teachers do not mind being challenged by the inquisitiveness of their students, but ma as I understand it often have rules of no talking in class and I'd imagine challenging the teacher (not physically) is a touchy subject too. "Hey I heard this [thing] was better..." or "I don't agree". No one's going to interrupt the professor in the middle of a college lecture, and the same discipline applies here. But I sense there's more of a 'blanket discipline' going on with ma than just accruing college credit by listening to the anthropology professor.

Actually at my uni we're encouraged to interrupt the lecturer with a question. Chances are if you're wondering about something or don't understand, someone else in the audience is in the same position. The lecturer won't know if they've skimmed over something too fast if no-one says anything. Likewise in my TKD classes, if you don't understand or just want to contest something, you speak up. Personally I think this is the best way to learn because not only can you end up in technical debates, you learn and understand everything better because you're not just taking something for granted but can see why something should be the way it is.

As for number of instructors, I say as many as you can learn from. I suggest having one main instructor, particularly if you are interested in learning from one particular style rather than mixing things up. However its good to have different perspectives on things as well as challenges to the way you do things. As long as you're instructors are ok with it, take suggestions and alternatives to them and ask about it. Obviously it depends on what sort of person they are but if you're not comfortable challenging them during class, catch them afterwards and then ask. Personally I have my main instructor back home, an instructor at uni, coaches I see for competition training and all the other people that train there too, plus you guys here. You take what you can from each and learn from it. Only thing I would say though is if an instructor tells you that they don't want you doing a certain thing in their classes, you have to respect that wish and keep to what they want you to be doing.