chicken or the egg

[fujau]

I was on the kukkiwon site looking at the origins of the style

and found this

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information01.jsp?div=01

then i went on the itf website and found this

http://www.tkd-itf.org/pub_web/ver_eng/founder.html

my question is what is what there seems ambiguity on both counts

and ideas

[bushido_man96]

If you want to get an accurate idea of where TKD really came from, the book A Killing Art, The Untold History of Tae Kwon Do, by Alex Gillis.

He lays out the truth about where TKD actually came from, and how it was put together.

The ITF and the WTF do not like each other, and each has tried to claim that it has the "true" TKD, with the "true" history.

The truth of the matter is that TKD is not a derivative of Subak, or Taekkyon, or Hwarangdo. TKD is a seperate creation and entity, being created only in the latter half of the last century.

When General Choi actually started teaching the MAs to his soldiers, he originally taught them what he learned through Shotokan Karate, which he was a 2nd dan in.

[fujau]

If you want to get an accurate idea of where TKD really came from, the book A Killing Art,

TKD is a seperate creation and entity, being created only in the latter half of the last century.

so who did create it. I can see it is not derived from Taekkyon as Taekkyon seems more like northan kung fu with it fluidity and softness.

I know a kick is a kick punch is a punch regardless of style. But Tkd just seems more a karate without the depth of the internal side

any takers would be helpful

[DWx]

If you want to get an accurate idea of where TKD really came from, the book A Killing Art,

TKD is a seperate creation and entity, being created only in the latter half of the last century.

so who did create it. I can see it is not derived from Taekkyon as Taekkyon seems more like northan kung fu with it fluidity and softness.

I know a kick is a kick punch is a punch regardless of style. But Tkd just seems more a karate without the depth of the internal side

any takers would be helpful

I don't think you can really say who created it. The reason I say that is becuase TKD isn't really just one thing.

TKDTutor does a decent job of explaining it all: http://www.tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/TaekwondoHistory/14TKDDevelopment02.htm

Basically though, you have a bunch of Korean guys who get educated in Japanese martial arts (mainly Shotokan and some Judo thrown in) before and during the Japanese occupation of Korea. These guys then set up their own schools (called the Kwans) during the 1940s and early 1950s and start teaching their "Karate", sometimes called Tangsoo-Do or Kongsoo-Do. After the war the masters start getting together and you begin to see the beginnings of TKD as the groups begin unifying. Then in 1955 the kwan leaders and Korea's president decide it would be a good idea to have a unique Korean name for the style and "Taekwondo" is born (not all of the Kwans go under this name though, that's why you still get styles like Moo Duk Kwan, Tang Soo Do etc). After that people start arguing and splitting and you end up with the ITF and WTF. So in a sense "Taekwondo" is just like using the term "Kung Fu", it just describes a group of similar styles from a region and you can't really pinpoint its creation down to one man.

[joesteph]

1. In the late 1600s, an Englishman, Newton, and a German, Leibniz, developed calculus completely separately.

2. In the 1800s, an American named Kelly and an Englishman named Bessemer developed the air-blast furnace independently of one another.

3. In the 1900s, a Hungarian professor named Rubik and a Japanese engineer whose name I don't recall independently developed multicolored cubes that could be twisted and turned. (It was proved at the time.) The Ideal Toy Co. called it "Rubik's Cube," and a Japanese company called it the "Wonderful Puzzler." (Many who bought what they thought were Rubik's Cubes were actually buying Wonderful Puzzlers, which were sold at a lower price.)

Did different Korean martial artists whose backgrounds and ideas were not tremendously different establish their own styles, and then, with government pressure to unify as a Korean national martial art, come together as Tae Kwon Do? I'll bet each one of those who headed his own kwan could show where he'd received his ideas/training separately from one another, so it's a martial art with a number of "fathers."

One martial artist who was able to keep his separate from the others was Hwang Kee for the Moo Duk Kwan, and that was determined by a Korean Supreme Court decision.

[bushido_man96]

DWx sets it out nicely. Also, Joe has made some good points, too.

[fujau]

If you want to get an accurate idea of where TKD really came from, the book A Killing Art,

TKD is a seperate creation and entity, being created only in the latter half of the last century.

so who did create it. I can see it is not derived from Taekkyon as Taekkyon seems more like northan kung fu with it fluidity and softness.

I know a kick is a kick punch is a punch regardless of style. But Tkd just seems more a karate without the depth of the internal side

any takers would be helpful

I don't think you can really say who created it. The reason I say that is becuase TKD isn't really just one thing.

TKDTutor does a decent job of explaining it all: http://www.tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/TaekwondoHistory/14TKDDevelopment02.htm

Basically though, you have a bunch of Korean guys who get educated in Japanese martial arts (mainly Shotokan and some Judo thrown in) before and during the Japanese occupation of Korea. These guys then set up their own schools (called the Kwans) during the 1940s and early 1950s and start teaching their "Karate", sometimes called Tangsoo-Do or Kongsoo-Do. After the war the masters start getting together and you begin to see the beginnings of TKD as the groups begin unifying. Then in 1955 the kwan leaders and Korea's president decide it would be a good idea to have a unique Korean name for the style and "Taekwondo" is born (not all of the Kwans go under this name though, that's why you still get styles like Moo Duk Kwan, Tang Soo Do etc). After that people start arguing and splitting and you end up with the ITF and WTF. So in a sense "Taekwondo" is just like using the term "Kung Fu", it just describes a group of similar styles from a region and you can't really pinpoint its creation down to one man.

Probably not the best reference using kung fu as kung fu means hard work so you could do kung fu cutting the grass or cooking sorry to pick hairs.

But I understand what you are saying thanks for the response

[DWx]

Probably not the best reference using kung fu as kung fu means hard work so you could do kung fu cutting the grass or cooking sorry to pick hairs.

But I understand what you are saying thanks for the response

lol yeah probably shouldn't use it, especially when talking to a Chinese-stylist.

[fujau]

Probably not the best reference using kung fu as kung fu means hard work so you could do kung fu cutting the grass or cooking sorry to pick hairs.

But I understand what you are saying thanks for the response

lol yeah probably shouldn't use it, especially when talking to a Chinese-stylist.

[bushido_man96]

Actually, isn't the term "Wushu" more akin to "Martial Art" than Kung Fu?