Double arm block in Heian Sandan

[Killer Miller]

Here's a Nakayama link, which is about as original and traditional as it comes for Heian Sandan technique and Bunkai.

URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmg4O-JuYMA

This is exactly how I learned it in terms of technique and bunkai.

- Killer -

[bushido_man96]

If the lines between Kata performance and the results of bunkai become blured, there is a risk that the intended larger purpose for practicing katas could be lost.

What, in your view, is the intended larger purpose for practicing katas?

[Wa-No-Michi]

In nutshell, for me as a Wado-ka, it is correct form.

The varying kata all act in slightly different ways to promote different key principles - stamina, endurance, musclular control, balance and stability etc.

For me, I think that there is a risk that if you rush to try and fulfill fancyful bunkai, you may be mising the bigger picture.

Of course ohyo (or application) of techniques should exist, this is where perhaps for me your yakusoku kumite would come in to play, gradualy leading on to jiyu kumite.

This bridge is not an easy one and really does need an experienced instructor to help your cross it.

WNM

Edited April 13, 2009 by Wa-No-Michi

[bushido_man96]

Thank you, WNM.

Do you feel that bunkai should be set in stone, like the forms are, or do you feel that there is leeway in the interpretations available?

[Wa-No-Michi]

Thank you, WNM.

Do you feel that bunkai should be set in stone, like the forms are, or do you feel that there is leeway in the interpretations available?

No I dont feel that they should be set in stone, but I also feel that some skill is involved in interpreting techniques / movements, so they remain practical.

The term Bunkai doesn't tend to be used by the senior Japanese Wado-ka instead they tend to refer to Keisetsu or the "physical commentary" of a technique.

It tends to be an explanation of the technique more or less exactly how it appears when performed in the kata. So blocks can be strikes, chokes, throws etc etc, but it is demonstrated exactly how the technique would be performed whilst doing the kata. This allows the karate-ka to visualise their karate whilst performing the kata and to give it intent / purpose so it does not become igata perhaps.

This is different to Bunkai as I understand it, as Bunkai is a defined process of dissecting and rebuilding into something else.

WNM

[sensei8]

And why are you referring to me in your post in the third party?

My bad! I didn't realize that! Sorry!

[Wa-No-Michi]

And why are you referring to me in your post in the third party?

My bad! I didn't realize that! Sorry!

No Problems

I just worried I might be dead or something lol.

WNM

[sensei8]

No one has mentioned Bunkai !

To me, everything mentioned in the OP was about Bunkai. Bunkai wasn't mentioned directly, but, it shouted Bunkai to me. You did say this, "If we are talking about the sequence at the start of the kata, they are blocks not punches." Sounds like Bunkai to me. Nonetheless, if I've erred, then I'm sorry.

I think TheHighlander, was talking about learning the "embusen" and Waza as it should appear in the Kata, not Bunkai.

My bad! Again, it sure sounded like Bunkai to me. I thought for sure it was a Bunkai question. After all, he asked this, "...was wondering what other's interpretation of the double arm block is?"

If I interpretated his question wrong, for that I apologize.

I deliberately steared way from the B word. My comments were based on my understanding as to how the kata should be performed - and transmitted from master to student.

This is where you need the guiding hand of a good knowledgeable sensei imo. To guide students and allow them to realise their kata without straying too far off the path.

If the lines between Kata performance and the results of bunkai become blured, there is a risk that the intended larger purpose for practicing katas could be lost.

Yeah, if Bunkai wasn't the intended question from the OP, then I boo-booed. Therefore, I concur with you.

Still, Bunkai and Kata walk hand in hand. Can't have one without the other!

[Wa-No-Michi]

If I interpretated his question wrong, for that I apologize.

Ahh, and there you have it perhaps, the skill is in how best to "interpret" things.

Chances are I am wrong, but if I remember correctly TheHightlander is just starting out on his/her journey, so to me its all about keeping it "actual"; simply learning the solid platform of embusen onto which he/she can build

Still, Bunkai and Kata walk hand in hand. Can't have one without the other!

Well they do, but it needs great skill to migrate from kata to kumite.

Not sure I have it, but I am enjoying learning / trying.

WNM

[TheHighlander]

...

Chances are I am wrong, but if I remember correctly TheHightlander is just starting out on his/her journey, so to me its all about keeping it "actual"; simply learning the solid platform of embusen onto which he/she can build

...

This is true. I had class again Sat. and talked to the asst. Sensei. he has been doing a lot of bunkai applications in his classes, so he has had that on the mind. He was showing me another way to look at it, but realizes that I shouldn't be thinking too much about that yet, and should learn how the kata really is - with the block.