What traditional weapon is the most effective now a days?

[armanox]

My sai have served me quite well...

[bushido_man96]

My sai have served me quite well...

Have you been able to use your sai in a self-defense situation?

[sensei8]

What traditional weapon is the most effective now a days?

Traditional to whom?

If you're referring to the martial arts, and I'm only assuming that you are. I'd say that none of them are effective now a days because only a ding dong would bring a knife to a gun fight.

[sensei8]

My sai have served me quite well...

Have you been able to use your sai in a self-defense situation?

...nor have I ever used a nunchaku, tonfa, kama, bo, katana, naginata, eku, tekko, tinbe-rochin, surujin, tambo, kuwa, nunti bo, and/or sansetsukon either in a self-defense situation. I believe in the damage-factor of these traditional Okinawan weapons, as well as my own abilities with these traditional Okinawan weapons, but, again, only a ding dong would bring any of these to a gun fight. Besides, most if not all, are against the law outside of the dojo.

[JusticeZero]

only a ding dong would bring a knife to a gun fight.

Have you ever actually looked at the results from the police tests on that? As it turns out, you'd have to be an idiot NOT to bring a knife to a gunfight at many common engagement distances for a handgun.

[JusticeZero]

Oh, and for my thoughts on the matter (duh) - i'm partial to a knife or a club - things that are socially acceptable to carry, or easily improvised. When I was delivering pizzas in the bad part of Austin, I carried a 5 D flashlight with a steel barrel. If anyone asked, I needed the light to find my way around and illuminate house numbers. But if it came down to it I had a sturdy club that I could dazzle with to tilt the odds a bit more. I could carry it in front of jumpy police or into stores and nobody would bat an eye. I actually have a police combatives manual on large flashlight use that I acquired gods only knows where that I dogeared up a bit during that stage of my life. Nowadays though, i'm not in those same risk factors, and i'm more concerned with mobility and not having to kit up like I was going down into Ye Olde Monster Infested Dungeon every time I walk out my front door now.

[sensei8]

sensei8 wrote:

only a ding dong would bring a knife to a gun fight.

A gun fight is when people are shooting at each other, and if I bring a knife to a gun fight, I'm going to get shot from any distance/angle, while I can throw my knife, and then I don't have a knife anymore because I threw it. Imho, a gun has more damage capabilities than a knife. Depending on the caliber and what have you, a gun can leave a rather large hole in someone. That's why I said what I said.

[JusticeZero]

Out at about 20 feet, tests that i've read indicate that the fellow with the gun is going to get sliced to ribbons by the knife user something like 98% of the time before they can bring their gun into play, assuming that they have their hand on the gun ready to draw at the slightest twitch of the guy with a knife in their pocket and two empty hands in the air. 20 feet is not terribly close, and those are not good odds.

Also, a knife can do some pretty horrific amounts of damage.

[tallgeese]

The 21 ft. rule is a pretty good one. However, most of those studies don't take into account the gun handler moving or trying to place barriers between himself and a knife wielder. They are generally conducted in a contained "quick draw" environment.

I have yet to see one constructed in such a way to account for those factors which are trained as a matter of routine for most individuals professionally carrying firearms, or serious enthusiast for that matter.

Usually, most of the studies also let the knife handler have blade in hand already. Also, most revolve around a fixed blade. While this is a real threat, most people are accessing folders and these can take a moment to bring into play.

Not downplaying the threat at all, I'm just saying that the handgun is a better platform even in close quarters in most cases than a knife.

[bushido_man96]

Great thoughts, guys. A few things I would consider:

A gun fight is when people are shooting at each other, and if I bring a knife to a gun fight, I'm going to get shot from any distance/angle, while I can throw my knife, and then I don't have a knife anymore because I threw it. Imho, a gun has more damage capabilities than a knife. Depending on the caliber and what have you, a gun can leave a rather large hole in someone. That's why I said what I said.

Out at about 20 feet, tests that i've read indicate that the fellow with the gun is going to get sliced to ribbons by the knife user something like 98% of the time before they can bring their gun into play, assuming that they have their hand on the gun ready to draw at the slightest twitch of the guy with a knife in their pocket and two empty hands in the air. 20 feet is not terribly close, and those are not good odds.

Also, a knife can do some pretty horrific amounts of damage.

I see what Bob is getting at, but that is considering that your gun fight is happening at range. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't work out that way. Where JusticeZero points out what tallgeese called the "21 foot rule" is also a good case, the fact of the matter is that most gun fights start at close range; I don't remember the stat, but my dad is a rangemaster, and he rattled it off for us once, and I thin right around 90% of fights involving a gun start at within 3 feet of each other. So, closing and drawing a knife isn't too absurd of an option to think of.

The 21 ft. rule is a pretty good one. However, most of those studies don't take into account the gun handler moving or trying to place barriers between himself and a knife wielder. They are generally conducted in a contained "quick draw" environment.

I agree here as well. If you take into account movement, training to deploy the firearm on the move, etc., you change the results of the scenario quite a bit. But, if you're caught flat-footed in the "oh, crap" moment, then things close real fast, even from 21 feet.