What does a belt mean to you?

[bushido_man96]

I see a lot of good points here so far. Good contributions, everyone. I have a few things to add...

I was wondering what it would do to the class if the karatekas in this case were allowed some days to train in shorts and a t-shirt? You know, gym clothes.

Actually, Karate Sensei Pat Nakata does this. No belts; just gi pants and a white T-shirt. I think it is a great idea.

Things like the gi focus the mind on the task, as you're preparing for class putting it on, and while in class.

I don't agree here necessarily. I think it can be viewed as that way for some, but I don't view it that way. Like tallgeese mentions, the mindset should be something that you can get into, regardless of what you are wearing. Remeber, the ancient Greek Olympians fought naked....

The ability to make a mindset switch should not be based on the act of putting on a uniform of any sort. It should be culitvated to be turned on regardless of external factors. But that's just my thinking.

I agree here. If you get jumped, you won't get a chance to change clothes.

I'm not that attached to the actaul wearing of the belt. We don't train in uniforms. Hence no belts. Mainly, we do sd focused ma's and mma training. I think the idea is still important, but not so much the wearing of the physical belt.

I found this idea intriguing. I think it has merit; kind of like having a certificate of rank does.

[joesteph]

When I first saw the OP, I realized I had to give extra thought to this one before posting.

A belt, whether a particular color or a color that has stripes added to denote levels within the color, identifies the practitioner as having reached a certain level of proficiency in a martial art, meaning that, when tested, the requirements of that level have been met and something external, a recognizable symbol of that ability, is being worn. Symbols are very important in any society, from the nation's flag to a wedding ring.

There are ten gup levels below dan ranking in my art, Soo Bahk Do, white belt being 10th gup. I've reached 6th, meaning a green belt and a green lapel on my uniform jacket. While others think of racing towards dan ranking, I've considered what it means to be a green belt/6th gup.

In order to have become a 6th gup, my test actually demonstrated that I knew the requirements from 10th to 7th; while a 6th gup, I am studying what a 6th gup/green belt is required to know. Testing for a promotion, to be 5th gup (a green belt with a blue stripe), actually means that I've demonstrated required 6th gup knowledge.

I believe that, in my experience, there is an official foible, in that certain techniques are to be learned, a simple example being certain self-defense techniques in which the opponent has seized your right wrist and you successfully counter, but the same technique is not required testing on the left wrist. I do not blame my teacher, in that she has pressed that we should know both, but time in the dojang, especially time to get in different lessons, prevents something as simple as this, but which must be practiced repeatedly for proficiency, from even being started on, let alone repeated. Does the pressure to have students be ready for the next test and the fact that only certain things will be on it count as a teaching-time factor? She does not chase us out of the dojang when class ends, but while I can stay longer on my training days, other adults simply can not and, other than forms, karate requires a partner with whom you can practice the many different aspects of the art.

Not to judge others, but there are other proficiencies lacking, in my mind, regarding myself, and I have discussed with my teacher that I do not wish to move further up the belt ladder without spending more time at being proficient with what I genuinely believe I ought to know.

I already feel capable of defending myself as well as an average martial artist can, and it simply isn't necessary for me to be far ahead of my children, who I help with teaching when it is their class time.

I will be working on what is needed for my next test but not take it. That will place me where I am more comfortable in my mind regarding what it means to be a green belt, a 6th gup. I will be pressing to take time to cover what I believe are personal weaknesses.

A belt, to me, is a recognized symbol of knowledge, of proficiency in a martial art, and I would rather live the part than play it.

[bushido_man96]

Thats why when I see these children black belts, I get so mad. There is no way that a 10 year old "black belt" is going to defeat a 23 year old martial arts/combat veteran. It just won't happen.

No but I'd imagine a 50+ year old blackbelt would also have a hard time doing it.

DXw, that depends. Its really based on the physical fitness of the martial artist involved. But even an out of shape 30 year old can subdue a child blackbelt.

Bruce Lee was an advocate of a Martial Artist being a representative specimen for his age group. An old man may not be able to hang with a young man, but an old man MAist should be able to shine against the layman of his age group, as far as being in physical form goes.

[bushido_man96]

Joe, you've got a good attitude for training there. Its good to see that you consider what means to be at the rank that you are at, and that you don't concern yourself with being ready for the next testing in the cycle.

I do think that in many styles today, the idea of preparing for the next test supercedes other criterea of the Martial Arts, like self-defense skills and applications. I have to admit that the TKD school that I attend tends to be like that.

Now, there are some good things that come out of that mindset: our instructors are real sticklers for technique, as am I. I have been very lucky in that all of my instructors have been very technical instructors; they like the techniques to be done right. That is in no way a bad thing, because proper technique develops proper power and efficiency.

But, my TKD school consists of doing basics, then forms, then one-steps, and then sparring if we have time (which don't tend to have a lot of time for). We hardly do any kind of self-defense applications, aside from our one-steps, which will work out great if we ever get attacked by a statue.

So, as it turns out, our students are usually very good at technique, and thus good at forms. But there are several in our school that don't like to spar, and I know why; they don't get much sparring drills, but just get sparring. Those that aren't as naturally aggressive as others tend to fall by the wayside here, and come to dislike sparring, which is more benefical than the one-steps are, in my opinion.

Good technique is a great thing, but we must learn to apply that technique, and stress it a little, to get good at self-defense, which is what I think the Martial Arts are really about.

[sensei8]

Why the big concern over belt/rank? It's nothing more than something to hold ones pants up. However, it's of importance, hence the creation of this topic.

Knowledge is paramount! Nothing's more important than knowledge. Rank is nothing more than a figment of someones imagination. Rank has it's purpose, after that, it's nothing of consequence or concern!

Funny I should say this, huh? Especially since I'm a Hachidan, but, if you knew me, this wouldn't be a surprise to you. You'd know that this is exactly what I feel about rank! The proof is on the floor!

IMHO!!!!

[akedm]

Good technique is a great thing, but we must learn to apply that technique, and stress it a little, to get good at self-defense, which is what I think the Martial Arts are really about.

Bushido, I posted another topic question about groin kicks which addresses self-defense and I think you and I differ in that opinion (self defense, not groin kicks), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter of ma's primary purpose.

Things like the gi focus the mind on the task, as you're preparing for class putting it on, and while in class.

I wrote this as an example of preparing for the dojo, so to speak. Like trying your shoes in the locker room prior to entering the gym. And seeing uniforms lined up doing the same thing to me is like watching soldiers in formation: it must help the mindset. Not a necessary thing I agree, but it focuses I think.

It's good to see that everyone posting has a bit of found wisdom to share. Thank you. You've all helped me appreciate ma more.

PS : And what's up with these 10 year old black belts anyway? I agree. I hope that at least a few of them honor the mental aspects of their ma discipline and learn their belts over again from an adult's perspective once they grow up. I said it clumsily, but I hope I'm clear enough.

[ninjanurse]

Bruce Lee was an advocate of a Martial Artist being a representative specimen for his age group. An old man may not be able to hang with a young man, but an old man MAist should be able to shine against the layman of his age group, as far as being in physical form goes.

This is the wisdom that I have always adhered too...as it should be.

[bushido_man96]

Bruce Lee was an advocate of a Martial Artist being a representative specimen for his age group. An old man may not be able to hang with a young man, but an old man MAist should be able to shine against the layman of his age group, as far as being in physical form goes.

This is the wisdom that I have always adhered too...as it should be.

I just hope that I can do that, eventually... But I am trying!

Bushido, I posted another topic question about groin kicks which addresses self-defense and I think you and I differ in that opinion (self defense, not groin kicks), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter of ma's primary purpose.

I posted a response to this in the other thread, but it bears repeating, I think. I feel that the goal of MA practice is to learn applicable self-defense; fighting, in other words. I feel that if I don't come away with some aspect of self-defense application in my MA training, then I am not training in a Martial Art.

[Truestar]

What a belt should mean today is different than what a belt did mean.

Belts I feel were a design to standardize the proficiency of students for comparisons to themselves in previous stages. A person that reached green belt should have significant physical and mental changes in comparison to themselves at the white belt level. Belts are merely representative of the stages in changes of maturity in a person in the martial aspect.

Now, in speaking of standardization, should all white belts and orange belts be held to the same standards? Should all the people of one belt be held to the same degree? Yes and no.

No because I believe belts are representative of individual skill sets. However I do contradict myself to some degree because I do think belts should hold some standard. A black belt shouldn't be a joke, and it should represent as stated mastery of the basics. While it may be cloth, it's what we choose to make it.

I am proud of my black belt. I have traveled 8 years in Tae Kwon Do and have come a long way in many aspects of myself. However I do compare myself to other black belts in my school and at tournaments. While it may be a personal accomplishment I do like to know I'm up to a certain standard. And I don't think this is wrong.

I don't think the belt "contains" my knowledge, if I wash it (which I don't) it's not washing away my ability. Dropping it on the floor isn't going to put a cloud over my head. This doesn't mean however I toss it around.

I was teaching class today and explaining the passion behind doing a form. I demonstrated the first few moves with precision, mobility, like as you would say a "black belt". One of our students pointed out, "Well you're a black belt so you're good". I thought about taking my belt off and doing the form to show that the belt holds no mystical power, it holds no ability. Instead of making anything too dramatic I merely explained that he is a yellow belt, he was doing the white belt form. The form he's practiced threw white, orange, and through his yellow belt. He should do nearly as well as any "black belt".

So I guess what I'm getting at is the belt shouldn't be worshiped, but there should be nothing wrong in holding it to a certain standard or feeling of pride.

[JusticeZero]

Well, my lineage has cords (rope belts), but we don't wear them in class; they're for the most part just measurements of how trusted you are in the organization to represent one's skills. There's one for 'you know the basics', one for 'you have the routine pretty much down', one for 'OK, you know your stuff, now learn how to teach', a 'you're a teacher now, we mostly care how good your students are from here on' one, and then a few above that until you get to the white cord like the grandmaster wears. I don't give them out, personally, or haven't in any case; I might someday. Have to agree that they can be used as an ego thing, and end up being a weakness; i'd rather my students be for the most part ringers, although I do use class shirts in class, as a rule, for the first one.

I do admit to wanting to get to Brasil so I can get tested to the cord i'm told I should be at; right now, my teacher considers me an instrutore, but is urging me to test in Brazil for professore; that would give me quite a bit more respectability I suppose.