What does a belt mean to you?

[akedm]

Well this is more of a philosophical question really. I've been wondering what a belt means, aside from the obvious notation of rank. I'm heading to the gym here in a moment so I'll try to type this out quick.

I was standing next to a friend who said to me I bet I can kick up to your head. I'm 6'4", she's 5'3" so I assume that she was trying to impress me, impress herself, maybe even get a flinch out of me if I were to move while she tried it which would make her feel...powerful and dangerous...maybe?? You know it gets a smile when you move out of natural reaction to danger. She ended up about halfway up my bicep though it took her a while to believe it even though others saw it too.

On the way home I remembered her words for getting into Karate: To learn more about herself, a self-journey she said. I remembered her words as she talked about Karate: Humility, Strength, Confidence...big on rules and lessons, you know, the normal stuff. Now I know nothing of Karate, but I'll bet my right hand that one of the lessons is not to boast or demonstrate your skills unless you have to.

I see that her pursuit of the belt went from learning about herself to showing off what she learned; thereby, showing that she learned very little so far. After all my guess is that when it comes to incorporating discipline and lessons into your life, the physical stuff is the easiest. The real lesson lies deeper. I've noticed more confidence in her to be sure, but also aggression, and even a bit of delusion. And now she cant wait to get her black belt. And I wonder if she's looking at belt like Gucci bags, as accessories proud to wear and a mark of status. I'm sure she'll grow out of it. I intend to talk to her.

In my short opinion a belt means nothing today: You demonstrated properly in the past and you have the ability to demonstrate properly in the present. Whether or not you do? Each day is a new test, and who you are today is what matters. Quick side note before I go : Years ago I worked at a medical supply store where I met a 14 year old girl who was talking care of her chronically sick mother. And from her I learned that age is not a mark of who you are. That girl had an amazing spirit and .....wisdom? Maybe? I soon broke down a lot of my ideas about status including age, rank and belts. After all a 14 year old girl may in ways be wiser then an elder. Where do you think the term "out of the mouths of babes" comes from? So what does a belt really indicate? I ask myself what would a belt mean to me if I were in Karate? And I'm asking you.

My friend is not atypical. I have become cocky and conceited when pursuing an goal with excitement and a feeling of ownership. I still do. I'm not proud of it, it's a weakness, but I'll admit it. Why shouldn't I? If I were in Karate I could very easily see myself walking down the street thinking I could take that person, I could take that person. It would be a lesson I'd have to face. I could also see myself envious even jealous of others. It's natural. We all get frustrated after all. But I can also see myself remembering why I originally signed up and eventually how to stop looking at the belts like Gucci bags (not that I'd carry a handbag) or something else to be coveted.

So I ask whoever wishes to answer, what does a belt mean to you? And maybe for bonus, has your reasons changed? Now I know there's no real way to answer this anonymously. If you mention the bad things everyone will know it's you, and no one looks to be pegged admitting selfish stuff. But maybe this is a way to evaluate yourself. So I leave it up to you how or if you want to answer.

Like I said it's a philisophical question, but one that deserves examination, and in my opinion this question deserves greatest importance when it comes to being outside the dojo.

Thank you.

[bushido_man96]

This is such a good topic! One of my favorites.

I think that we all go through stages like this, when rank is present. I began taking MAs to learn self-defense, and because it was a general interest of mine; my dad had done it in the past. However, I must admit that when I began testing for rank, I liked testing and earning higher rank. I don't think it is wrong to feel some pride about working hard and earning a reward. But keeping it in context is important.

At this point in my MA career, I don't view rank as that high of a priority. Instead, I view knowledge and application as the high priority. I'm not concerned about my rank, but about whether or not what I know will work for me, and if I can apply it when the time comes. The generalities and formalities that tend to bog down many Martial Arts is not a focus of mine; the meat of the MAs is what concerns me.

When discussing ranks and belt systems, I like to use this analogy: compare a typical Eastern-style Martial Arts class with styles like Boxing, Wrestling, and Thai Boxing. In the belt class, you see the rank, and have an expectation of where to be in line, and how to answer to everyone (respect senior students, etc).

Now take the Boxing, Wrestling, or Thai gyms, or even an MMA gym now. When you get into the gym and begin to train, you don't see the rank system; you just see guys training, working on their fighting. Now, what you find out is that as you work with everyone, you see where they fall as it is with skill level, teaching/coaching knowledge, etc. You won't see the rank and file of lines filling a room prior to the workout, denoting who is high and who is low rank. You find out where you fall as you train. The guys who are better, you look to for questions. The guys below you may look to you. You find the guys about your level and become training partners if you can, or you choose to get whooped by the good ones, to help you get better. Plus, without the rank and file being laid out for you, there tends to be more willingness to mix and mesh with anyone in the group, asking questions of anyone comfortably, not concerned with how you should approach or address them.

Sometimes, I think that rank systems can get in the way more than they help.

[akedm]

I was quick in my post so I forgot one thing until you mentioned it in your reply. I was wondering what it would do to the class if the karatekas in this case were allowed some days to train in shorts and a t-shirt? You know, gym clothes. Probably wouldn't fly in a combat-related discipline. I know the gi is important mainly as a way to prepare the mind before class (as you're putting it on) and to keep the mind focused while in class. And your point on the belt and the analogy of the gym's who's who was great.

A few days ago I was running on the treadmill and there was this old guy next to me, looked like a couch potato, hair messy, wore a t-shirt and sweats he must have lived in and he was flabby like you wouldn't believe. He didn't even look like he was entirely straight on the treadmill. And this guy was a machine - faster, smoother, greater endurance, less exertion - a really incredible sight. The appearance of someone really does influence us.

Getting off the belt-thing for a sec, as far as dojo etiquette, rules and whatnot, I think it's very important. Things like the gi focus the mind on the task, as you're preparing for class putting it on, and while in class. But too much of it can be, well silly. For example at this one dojo you wear a black gi if you're in the Black Belt Program where you pay years ahead, or if you're paying month-to-month you have to wear the white gi. Too much. What kind of lesson is that teaching to everyone? It says is "awwww you're not committed" or "awwww you're poor", that's for sure. Not good lessons.

When I first saw the dojo I thought it was just a choice - some chose to wear black and some chose white. Nope. Sad.

I think I'd turn down the black gi myself unless it was required, then fine I'll wear it. I'm pretty sure though I'd be keeping a log of my progress and thoughts from day 1 so I could express what I really thought of the sensei, the rules, the dojo and lessons - the good and bad.

Anyway, back to the belt. That's the question! What does it mean to you? Thanks for your post!

[Throwdown0850]

a BB means to me that a person is a "master" of the basics.

[tallgeese]

Good question.

I really do think it's mainly a denotation of a student's progress. I think it's primary importance lies in a clubs esperit de corps and the student's mind. I'm attached to the idea of mine (and since my instrucotr gave me a new one at my last promotion, I'm pretty attached to it as well).

Each group will look on "what it means" art wide based on each systems concept of it's level of mastery. This will probibly change somewhat even between schools of a given art. To some, it's a solid grasp of basics. For me, it's a solid understanding of fundimentals and advanced movements. It's a complete ability to disect principles and apply them situationally. There's also a basic abaility to teach and pass on prinicples that's expected.

Whatever a clubs standard is, it should be universal and applied in all cases. No bb's just because they've been in long enough.

I'm not that attached to the actaul wearing of the belt. We don't train in uniforms. Hence no belts. Mainly, we do sd focused ma's and mma training. I think the idea is still important, but not so much the wearing of the physical belt.

The ability to make a mindset switch should not be based on the act of putting on a uniform of any sort. It should be culitvated to be turned on regardless of external factors. But that's just my thinking.

[Throwdown0850]

Good question.

I really do think it's mainly a denotation of a student's progress. I think it's primary importance lies in a clubs esperit de corps and the student's mind. I'm attached to the idea of mine (and since my instrucotr gave me a new one at my last promotion, I'm pretty attached to it as well).

Each group will look on "what it means" art wide based on each systems concept of it's level of mastery. This will probibly change somewhat even between schools of a given art. To some, it's a solid grasp of basics. For me, it's a solid understanding of fundimentals and advanced movements. It's a complete ability to disect principles and apply them situationally. There's also a basic abaility to teach and pass on prinicples that's expected.

Whatever a clubs standard is, it should be universal and applied in all cases. No bb's just because they've been in long enough.

I'm not that attached to the actaul wearing of the belt. We don't train in uniforms. Hence no belts. Mainly, we do sd focused ma's and mma training. I think the idea is still important, but not so much the wearing of the physical belt.

The ability to make a mindset switch should not be based on the act of putting on a uniform of any sort. It should be culitvated to be turned on regardless of external factors. But that's just my thinking.

Agreed, very good point.

[Grego]

to me, a belt SHOULD be an indication of skill.

A green belt should not be able to easily take out a black belt. A white belt shouldn't be able to take out a green belt, ect.

However, when you have schools that promote for money or because they've held a certain rank long enough, it degrades that belt. Skill alone should determine what belt you are.

Thats why when I see these children black belts, I get so mad. There is no way that a 10 year old "black belt" is going to defeat a 23 year old martial arts/combat veteran. It just won't happen.

[Throwdown0850]

to me, a belt SHOULD be an indication of skill.

A green belt should not be able to easily take out a black belt. A white belt shouldn't be able to take out a green belt, ect.

However, when you have schools that promote for money or because they've held a certain rank long enough, it degrades that belt. Skill alone should determine what belt you are.

Thats why when I see these children black belts, I get so mad. There is no way that a 10 year old "black belt" is going to defeat a 23 year old martial arts/combat veteran. It just won't happen.

I could not agree more.

[DWx]

Thats why when I see these children black belts, I get so mad. There is no way that a 10 year old "black belt" is going to defeat a 23 year old martial arts/combat veteran. It just won't happen.

No but I'd imagine a 50+ year old blackbelt would also have a hard time doing it.

[Grego]

DXw, that depends. Its really based on the physical fitness of the martial artist involved. But even an out of shape 30 year old can subdue a child blackbelt.