Dont Drop Your Belt...

[Truestar]

I don't think it's right to criticize people for showing respect for their belt above average pieces of clothing.

We take pride in plaques and memorials which are also merely objects. If you drop a plaque with your name on it and it shatters are you not somewhat distraught? That's because we took pride into that plaque. The belt is the same way. We earned it, so we show respect for it.

I still don't agree with your instructor kicking you like he did, but I'm trying to offer up some explanations as to how we treat our belts. I wouldn't intentionally throw mine on the floor or dirty it, although I wouldn't scold myself for dropping it I certainly wouldn't be thoughtless about it.

[Wa-No-Michi]

It sounds like its very different in the US but here in the UK there are very few clubs that I know of that ask someone to sign a waiver / disclaimer.

Why... because they are often not worth the paper they are written on and any good litigation lawyer worth their sorts, would argue around it anyway.

Quite often in the past, insurance companies would ask clubs to get students to sign these waivers, in order to act as a first line of defence, should the club (as their client) have a claim brought against them, but in the most part they have dropped that "fighting on the back foot approach".

Nowadays, they tend to be more "proactive" and require the insured to prove that they have a good "Health and Safety" approach to teaching; correct Risk Assessments and teaching plans in place with coaches who are trained to the appropriate standard. Particular emphasis is placed on teaching minors (and people who are vulnerable), and for this reasons clubs are required to have a "Child Protection" policy in place.

Why... because these are the types of things lawyers find hard to argue around.

Given that American law is broadly based on British law, I wouldn't mind betting the same rules will (if not now maybe later) effect you.

And... I think we have been here before Traymond but, just because you might not see fit to bring charges against your Sensei for what he did; in the uk at least, this would not stop the authorities bringing charges against him.

Because its abuse.

WNM

[Traymond]

Martial arts is about discipline, no?

Martial arts is about tradition, no? (Atleast in traditional martial arts)

Martial arts is about honor, no?

This is a way of life to this man, and he wants everything to be perfect in his students. He doesn't care if the belt touches the ground if its still tied around your waist...but if your taking it off and it falls...than you should have been more careful...

And grego...what grounds would their be for the courts to convict him of that? It was on his own property so he could also counter sue as trespassing since the class were over, and no one else was around as an eye witness at the time, they were all in the 'locker' room.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Do you compete Traymond?

[Traymond]

Not any more, I have arthritis in my ankle, I forget the scientific fancy name.

[Grego]

Traymond,

since you pay to come there, there is plenty of legal grounds to convict. It would be like renting an apartment and being attacked by the landlord.

And even if you were a guest in somebody's house, they can't just beat you up. Being on somebody's property does not exempt them fro assault charges.

The only way that is a legal defense is if there are uninvited people on your property.

Traymond, I'm not badmouthing your sensei. However, he could get into serious trouble for these practices.

[Traymond]

Traymond,

since you pay to come there, there is plenty of legal grounds to convict. It would be like renting an apartment and being attacked by the landlord.

And even if you were a guest in somebody's house, they can't just beat you up. Being on somebody's property does not exempt them fro assault charges.

The only way that is a legal defense is if there are uninvited people on your property.

Traymond, I'm not badmouthing your sensei. However, he could get into serious trouble for these practices.

I dont pay for classes, I did at one time, but he I no longer pay.

He doesn't really charge anyone alot...the most he does charge is 5-10 dollars a session that lasts 2-4 hours. But since it is not a business and if he were a bad person he could easily just say that a group of kids and young adults were roaming around his property.

[ninjanurse]

This is an interesting discussion on martial arts culture and traditions. While we are all passionate about our personal experiences and martial ethics please remember to remain respectful to others. Thanks!

[Grego]

What he charges isn't really the issue, Traymond. I don't pay for my lessons either, and I'm very close to my sensei...however, if he attacked me like that, I'd probably try not to comment right away. I'd pull him aside later, and communicate that his actions were unbecoming.

A teacher never has a right to injure a student, no matter how senior. You can't really argue that fact.

[JohnKeats]

It looks like the subject is changing rapidly. Looks like Traymond acknowledges his sensei's actions... so what? It is up to him. We won't be able to change the way he thinks (I don't judge it, I wouldn't know what I would feel in your same situation). Besides I'm amazed an "old man" is his eighties, looking to last no long is able to do that to a shoulder.

The belt thing... well I don't really get it. I haven't asked my sensei about what he thinks about the whole belt worshipping thing. Quite a lot of my classmates (I mean karate class mates... if sometone has the "technical name", please tell me, English is not my mother-tongue) are into this "don't ever wash your belt!!". As I said, I don't asked my sensei, because the first day I got my karategi and white obi, after 3 classes (I had no time to wash in-between) the belt was slighlty yellowish (sweat+some dirt from the ground), so I just tucked it into the wash-machine with the karategi. And it has been the same since. Now I'm yellow, I haven't still washed it, the colour could fade and melt with the gi, but probably this week I'll wash it.

It's a belt. YOU can respect it, but I don't have to do it. It has nothing to do with karate. It's not the same as respecting the martial part of karate, it is just a piece of cloth. When I had my karategi dry-washing and getting ironed I wore white tennis trousers and a white T-shirt. The same I wore the first days before getting my proper uniform. And my sensei just said my karategi looked funny now, and then more seriously asked where it was.

Summing up... believes are for the believer, and the unbeliever won't get it easily. I'm not my belt, and my belt doesn't really reflect what I may know. It just a piece of cloth. And it doesn't work perfect to keep the karategi closed, moreover