Dont Drop Your Belt...

[Traymond]

Well by his demeanor I dont think he could really care less who is here with him any more, he is in his 80's and he could croak any minute (his own words). I dont think he plans on strong arming his way around.

Do I feel privileged and obligated to get my rear end handed to me by him...no I do not. Do I feel honored he has never requested payment...yes I do. Thats why I do not leave his Dojo. His teaching style is like no others. He does not demand honor its given to him even by bystanders that just come into watch.

When your my age...a decade is a long time....im only 19...thats over half my life. He has pretty much made me into who I am.

Saying that this man has given me a good grounding...is an understatement. He grinded me down to a fine flour and then rebaked me.

Im the only on he ever awarded sandan to...everyone else barely made it to nidan and then quit. he is demanding but he is also old fashioned. I have trained with old sensei such as Iha sensei of Okinawa and Yara sensei of Japan, and they were even harsher...this encounter just caught me off guard thats why i posted about it.

but I do thank you for your thoughtlessness and advice.

Thank you Wa No Michi

[tallgeese]

Well, being the non-trad guy, I think it's nuts to get worked up about what happens to a belt all that much anyway. I think someone way more traditional in practice than I a while back had some insight that this wasn't even all that authentic of a practice.

I can understand an attachment on a wearers part, but to take it to this extreme, its well.....extreme. And by an instructor.

I'm with Michi here, I'd be looking for a new school. Not to mention not only did he whack you that hard in a non-traninig sense, but also put you out of training for weeks if he actaully dislocated the GH joint.

Sorry, no need for that.

[Grego]

Traymond, my sensei is very traditional too. I've been punished by taking a whack, or pushups....but he's never hit me in a way that could injure me.

I'm not saying that you should not study under him again...but if he dislocates a shoulder, that could affect your Martial Arts career.

Notice that my objection was to him injuring you, not to him kicking you

Sorry if you think I was implying that you should stop studying under him.

[bushido_man96]

I'm with tallgeese and WNM here. If my instructor kicked me over for dropping my belt, I'd throw it back at him, give him some choice words, and then leave, and likely not come back. If someone took a blind-sided shot at me like that, my reaction would likely be to retaliate physically...I don't care what rank he's wearing, and I wouldn't care if he thought he could wipe the floor with me, either. I was raised not to put up with crap like that. But that's just me.

The belt is just a belt, like the rest of the uniform. And I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I do remember paying for mine, so I don't think I'll be taking any advise on what I should do with what is mine.

[Truestar]

Although I do believe the belt should be respected, that's a bit much in my opinion.

I don't think anyone should ever wear another persons belt, I don't think someone should just throw their belt around either. But an accidental drop is just that, an accident. You weren't intentionally showing disrespect for your belt.

Our schools opinion as far as the belt touching the ground is, we grapple, so everyday the belt is constantly making friends with the floor. A drop here or there wouldn't change anything.

Then again, he sounds more traditional. If tradition is your belt doesn't touch the floor unless still on you, that's the tradition. However kicking you like that? I don't think so. I'd be upset, especially with a dislocated shoulder. But I would definitely make an approach to better understand the justification of such a rough movement.

[Grego]

Also, what if you were a minor? Say 16 years old?

If I was a parent that had a student in that class, and saw him kick another student (regardless of rank), I'd have problems sending my kid back

[Harlan]

It seems to me that if you don't know the reason, that it's a 'lesson' wasted.

You say you are 19? You are your own man...respect is a two-way street. Either way, for whatever reason, you are on a whole new footing with your sensei now.

[Traymond]

Tallgeese and Grego,

he had no intention of dislocating my shoulder. he wanted to lay me out thats all. He quotes, "In all my years of training, I have only dropped my belt once...when I did that my instructor broke my arm, If I instill the same discipline in you, than I have successfully passed on atleast 50% of my masters teaching to you".

With that we went right on to class.

He also says that pushups are not a punishment its a conditioning exercise...you can do all the push ups you want but why call it a punishment when it betters your body.

If he did hit a minor their could be a possibility for him to get in trouble

Bushido Man,

This is where the thread about controlling your anger falls in. If I were to retaliate against him, he could have easily laid me out a dozen more times if need be. His primary style is Pressure points and Meridian Points...I would have standed no chance.

And plus my black belt is 50% silk and 50% satin right out of japan...that was an expensive belt...I would never throw it any one in risk of not getting it back again...haha

Truestar,

I admit I was a bit upset with a dislocated shoulder but...he 'kindly' relocated it for me..since I still dont know how to do it to myself...last night he also told me that it should be thought of as a lesson to learn how to relocate it myself...and to be less clumsily..."What good is a warrior who cannot even keep a hold of an obi".

Harlan,

To consider ones self to always be on the same old footing all the time, is to not know what a life is.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Quite a few on here have suggested that what was behind these events / actions was because the school was “traditional”.

In my experience of Japanese martial arts “strictness” is not the defining part what makes an art form or school “traditional”, but is part of the same misunderstanding that has led to the true meaning of Budo becoming a very rare commodity… and the problem is not confined to us here in the west.

In Nishioka Tsuneo’s book “Budo way of thinking: Shu,Ha,Ri” he writes:

“The heart of bujutsu is rei. The responsibility of a teacher is to communicate this to students. If this communication fails, students can develop incorrect attitudes and the true meaning of training is lost. Unfortunately, there is a great deal of abuse of power in Japanese budo today. In my opinion few teachers are teaching the principles of budo correctly. Rei in budo has become very artificial, resembling the old-style Japanese military hierarchy. The true meaning of rei is no longer expressed. We seem to be preserving only the worst parts of Japanese traditions and culture, and we need to consider ways to change this situation.

Bujutsu leads to rei. The instructor ideally behaves as an exemplar to lead students toward something higher. Rei is an expression of humility towards that higher existence. But some people, as they develop their skills and achieve higher rank, dismiss what they ought to have learned about rei. Those who fail to work as diligently to improve the spirit as they do to improve their techniques are likely to forget the proper humility of true rei. They are apt to become overconfident, proud, and patronizing. Spiritual development and technical development are entirely different things and there is not necessarily any relationship between them.”

WNM

[Harlan]

Excellent post.