Feinting

[bushido_man96]

This is a two-part question:

1. How do you use feinting in the training hall, for competition/free sparring? Is it a big part of what you do? Do you use the hands, or feet, or both? How big of a role does it play for you?

2. How do you use feinting, if at all, for self-defense purposes? I think that there are many who don't feel it really has a place in self-defense, so what do you think?

[the beast]

1. I like to use it in sparring especially if I'm having trouble getting past my opponents defenses, as far as hands or feet I use both it just depends on what technique I plan on following up with.

2. For self defense I don't think feinting is very practical, not really enough time to set up techniques. I'm more straight forward no hiding my intentions (which for self defense are all bad.)

[tallgeese]

Any training in the hall or on the floor should, in my mind, translate somehow to sd. Even if only in principle or as a training tool for mental preparedness.

Feints do have a place, but mine tend to be larger gross motor movements than finite hand or foot trickery. Moving to a side of the body with a shift in weight to make him think its coming from that side while I"m really unloading weight from my o ther leg to deleiver a mt round, that sort of thing. Body feints tend to be more my thing.

Still, I'll use jabs and feints quite a bit to disguise other movements. This works out really well if you're looking to initate some form of hands-on control against a subject. A hand, even a light one, in the face will often make them forget about the fact you're starting to torque and arm.

When used with standing jj, it works real well to start a tactic to one position then reverse to another (say straint arm bar to bent armbar) gives you an element of suprise to the joint positon and a couple of options should one or the other fail (which is a good expectation).

I tend to be a "blast away" kind of guy, but again, they are a good tool to at least have a basic grasp on.

[Kuma]

I don't feint too much personally. However, one of my sempai is very good at it and his philosophy was "feint with full power", meaning if your opponent doesn't react to it, it should actually hit them and not just be a feint. You also need to throw them from the right range, otherwise a good fighter will know to ignore them. I don't feint much because I want every strike to hit, that's just my approach.

[tallgeese]

It's a good approach.

[joesteph]

In Angels With Dirty Faces, James Cagney was "teaching" a wiseguy (one of the Dead End Kids) a lesson in obeying the rules. Cagney put up his dukes, which the kid did immediately as well, and then Cagney kicked him in the shin.

You can't help but laugh when you see it.

[bushido_man96]

I used to feint a bit when sparring, but haven't much lately...of course, I haven't sparred much lately, either. When working with my brother, I used to feint a jab at him quite a bit, and he would bite on it, hard. I may have to give it a go when I do get to spar again.

In SD, I don't feint much. The problem comes down to if someone is inebriated in some way, a feint just might not work on them, as their reaction time and level of perception would be shot, anyway.

[DWx]

For our sport sparring / competitive sparring feinting is really useful.

For SD I think it still has its place but in a different way. Obviously you don't have the 2 mins to feel out and score points on your opponent but feints like punching the guy in the face but then actually throwing a low line kick may still work.

[bushido_man96]

There was an article in Black Belt this month about feinting. It had some good points, but the author made a comment about those not susceptible to feints, in his view, were "unsophisticated." I kind of thought the comment was a bit out of line; everyone just fights differently, and reacts differently. He also claimed that those that didn't react to feints would be slower in reacting to committed attacks, because they are always waiting for the committed attack. I'm not sure about that; he may have a point there.

[tonydee]

I don't feint too much personally. However, one of my sempai is very good at it and his philosophy was "feint with full power", meaning if your opponent doesn't react to it, it should actually hit them and not just be a feint. You also need to throw them from the right range, otherwise a good fighter will know to ignore them. I don't feint much because I want every strike to hit, that's just my approach.

Your sempai's attitude fits in with my thinking. I see feints a bit like tai chi sensitivity (push hands) exercises... the aim is to move your attack towards them - if they tense up in resistance then you flow around it then snap power into it yourself before they recover from their attempted block... if they stay relaxed and in control then you have to bide your time. Over-commitment is dangerous in fighting... and even the possibility of a strike - without so much as a feint eventuating - limits and controls the opponent's freedom of movement through forcing them to cover or risk wearing it. Everything starts from having a good guard... for me that means fists extended to threaten the opponent's head and allow early blocking, rather than being pulled in towards my own head. Feints with the feet are just as important... for example: the opponent may take an over-deep stance to provide a foundation for a solid block of the expected attack, limiting their mobility for the alternative attack actually delivered.

Cheers,

Tony