Is Science on the Three-Quarters Turn Side?

[joesteph]

I don’t know how many times I’ve read about the horizontal v. the vertical fist, and how often the three-quarters turn has been the compromise. Well, in Chris Thomas’s “Power Punching: A Medical Doctor Examines Karate-Do and Karate-Jutsu to Find Out Which System Has the Better Punch” (Black Belt, March 2001, p. 92), it’s horizontal v. three-quarters, with no vertical fist in sight. It can be accessed by clicking HERE.

According to the author, karate-do is translated as “martial way,” while karate-jutsu is “martial science.” He refers to executing the horizontal fist by aiming ahead to a point matching the center of the body, but the three-quarters is to a point aiming off-center, just inside the line of the shoulder. Within the article, the makiwara board is referred to as an example of body mechanics. The author refers to Ralph Buschbacher, MD, that the three-quarters delivery is actually “a more natural and sounder technique than the full twist punch.”

The article goes into the radius and ulna of the forearm, and there are illustrations as well. Dr. Buschbacher is quoted as saying, “Most martial artists twist their hand to a full palm-down position when punching. This weakens the force dissipation from the radius to the ulna . . .”

The author claims that the original punch was the three-quarters, but it was changed for a variety of reasons, which he explains. He ends by cautioning to use the three-quarters for when you mean business, and the horizontal for aesthetics.

EDIT: I had incorrectly said that the author called karate-jutsu "karate science" when he actually referred to it as "martial science."

Edited April 2, 2009 by joesteph

[sensei8]

Well, nobody said that change was for the best...at all times. For me, the discussions about vertical/horizontal/three-quarter fist relationship is just that...a discussion that's based on fact/fiction. Fact/fiction? How's that? Imho, it's fact to its believers while at the same time it's fiction to its unbelievers depending on what methodologies that a practitioner trusts/believes.

Just as its fact/fiction to those of the methodologies as to which knuckles are better to strike with.

Bottom line for me is this...if it works FOR YOU with no severe side-effects, then use it, train it, and believe in it.

[bushido_man96]

I've heard similar arguements for the 3/4 turned fist. I have tried all of them out on the bag, but never on a makiwara. It appears that when you read up on the physiology of the matter, that the vertical or 3/4 fist tend to be what is preferred.

[Kuma]

I first learned of the 3/4 turned fist from reading about Chotoku Kyan as he used it for seiken jodan tsuki. However, I never really applied it to any other strike. Interesting.

[joesteph]

I did a small experiment with the natural movement of the striking hand.

I stood in orthodox (boxing) stance, then threw a right cross to full extension. I was up on the ball of the right foot, my body twisted as it ought to, and the strike ended with what appears to be a full horizontal turn of the punching hand. Holding that extended position, I tipped back on my right foot to have the heel touch the floor. The fist was not horizontal; it was three-quarters.

I redid it with the left jab at full extension and, with the left heel moving from its raised position to flat on the floor, the same occurred.

I've mentioned in the past that, should you extend one arm straight out in front of you or even to the side, with your hand not in a fist but loosely open, the turn is three-quarters--the natural position the body chooses for the extended hand, which could have been a fist. My experiment leads me to believe that the apparently horizontal fist of the boxer's cross punch is actually a three-quarters turn.

[bushido_man96]

That's an interesting experiement, Joe.

The other night, I was warming up on the bag before class, and was throwing either a vertical or the 3/4 fist punches at the bag. I have to say that I felt quite comfortable with the 3/4 fist.

[joesteph]

In the past, one member posted that she'd again cracked a knuckle. I don't remember it well, but I do recall her cautioning that many who think they're striking with the first two knuckles are actually striking with the middle finger knuckle first, meaning more pressure on the one than shared with the two evenly.

When performing a horizontal fist, it seems very easy to "lead" with the middle finger knuckle. But when performing a three-quarters fist, it seems to be more evenly distributed over the first two knuckles. Striking a board, the makiwara, or a jawbone is much more resistant than a nose or solar plexus. I wonder if the three-quarters aids in both index and middle finger knuckles striking simultaneously?

[bushido_man96]

When Bruce Lee describes his lead vertical fist, he struck with the bottom 3 knuckles, as opposed to the top 2. Has anyone explored this much? I find that striking with the bottom 3 knuckles is fairly adequate when doing bag work, at least.

[joesteph]

I was already using the vertical fist for the lead hand when I found out that Lee used it as well, although I learned that Dempsey used the last three knuckles before I found out that Lee did. I've done multipe rapid punches against BOB, finding that the faster I go, that lead hand tends to land with the last three knuckles, especially the higher BOB's head is.

Standing square against BOB, so there's no lead hand (or, looking at it another way, both act as "lead" hands), and rapidly firiing off as many alternating shots as I can against BOB's face, the higher his face is, the more likely that impact is with the last three knuckles. So long as I feel that the ring finger knuckle is the center of the striking fist, Brian, I'm fine with it. It's sound.

[bushido_man96]

Nice usage of the bag to find your answers, Joe.