The kata topic

[bushido_man96]

1. When MA was outlawed, they practiced MA in the form of a classical dance - called Kata. It was their way to still train and not be classified as MA.

2. Kata is a series of movements or techniques used against one or more imanginary opponents - thus, the Bunkai of Kata...

- Killer -

To your first point - I agree 100%

On the second point. I personally believe that kata is NOT bunkai, but a way to help remember and practice so that you can do bunkai. The movements in kata should not be taken as a literal fight but as a dance to help you remember concepts in fighting.

Hope that makes sense?

As for the second point here, I do think that there is likely some extrapolation that takes place when performing the bunkai.

[granitemiller]

The more you train in kata bunkai, the more you come to appreciate them.

[Traymond]

The more you train in kata bunkai, the more you come to appreciate them.

Yes, especially when you train with other teachers and masters doing the same kata, you learn more Oyo bunkai. Its funny how everyone has slightly differend interpretation of the movements especially in the pinans/heians.

[Wa-No-Michi]

The danger of training in Kata Bunkai is that if you are not careful, all you create is another kata - albeit a paired kata.

That not a bad thing necessarily, but it is not stepping out of the kata (as a mind set) either.

And to realise the potential of kata you must train to do this. You can not understand how to do it from a book.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Wa-No-Michi

[Traymond]

The danger of training in Kata Bunkai is that if you are not careful, what you create is another kata - albeit a paired kata.

That not a bad thing necessarily, but it is not stepping not of kata as a mind set.

Yes and that can be a some what embarrassing thing when you go to style tournaments...

[Wa-No-Michi]

Whats do you mean by style tournaments?

[Traymond]

like for Goju ryu, only goju ryu people doing goju ryu the exact same way the organization says its suppose to be,....

[Wa-No-Michi]

I think you misunderstand me.

Creating another kata from the practice of Kata bunkai has nothing to do with style.

[bushido_man96]

The danger of training in Kata Bunkai is that if you are not careful, all you create is another kata - albeit a paired kata.

That not a bad thing necessarily, but it is not stepping out of the kata (as a mind set) either.

And to realise the potential of kata you must train to do this. You can not understand how to do it from a book.

I'm a bit confused by what you are saying here, WNM. I don't quite understand what you are getting at; could you elaborate a bit more for me, please?

[Wa-No-Michi]

The danger of training in Kata Bunkai is that if you are not careful, all you create is another kata - albeit a paired kata.

That not a bad thing necessarily, but it is not stepping out of the kata (as a mind set) either.

And to realise the potential of kata you must train to do this. You can not understand how to do it from a book.

I'm a bit confused by what you are saying here, WNM. I don't quite understand what you are getting at; could you elaborate a bit more for me, please?

1. Kihon (moving basics/line work) = Kata

2. Solo Kata ie Pinan Nidan etc = Kata

3. Yakusoku Kumite (pre-arranged sparing/pair work) = Kata

If, by the utilising the process Bunkai, you break out techniques from the kata, develop them into fighting techniques that you then drill with a partner, what you are in fact doing is creating another type 3 Kata.

4. Jiyu Kumite (free fighting) - is NOT kata.

To transit between 1,2,3 and then onto 4 you must "step out of the kata".

I have to go teach now, but I will try to write some more later when I get back, because it is a very important subject to me - and not one that is easy to grasp.

WNM