"Not all Martial Artists are honorable..."

[Espina]

Actually fighting is only half of it. You're learning the self defense but with the idea that you'll never have to use it. It's just for extreme emergencies only, and I stress that heavily.

Martial Arts is actually about internal conflict. What drives you to even be interested in them. Not the social locales, or international Holly Wood corporate machine that wants your money to push out more movies you can initially frown at.

You're overcoming yourself. It's a self discipline, that also increases your health, reduces stress, and some people say it can add years to your life. You're taught to be an example for your art. To respect yourself, and other people.

While its true not all Martial Artists are honorable. "We" who are the honorable martial artists should lead by example.

I strongly agree with you

[tallgeese]

Most of the internal side of things was probably developed later in most cases than the formalized practice of fighting for warfare. It's well documented how the Tokugawa ear regulations effected Japanese arts. In many cases by making them more acceptable to a non-warring society.

I think it's fine if one wants to persue those aspects. But there's nothing wrong with getting to the heart of the matter and accepting them as fighting methods alone.

[bushido_man96]

I agree. I didn't take up Martial Arts training for internal aspects of self-improvement, or to become a better person; I like to think I was a pretty good person already. I wanted to learn how to fight/defend myself, and everything else is just a bonus.

I do, however, agree that leading by example is important, but not just for Martial Artists. Its important for society as a whole, and I think it is the responsibility of society as a whole to lead the younger generartions in the right way. I don't think it is the responsibility of Martial Arts training, or Martial Artists to head this parade; its EVERYONE'S responsibiltiy.

[tonydee]

Martial arts training engenders certain knowledge and experience that any given individual may or may not have had before:

- some people "stronger" than them will choose to help them improve rather than abuse that advantage

- they in turn can help people who are "weaker" than them improve

- these relationships cross all other barriers that people may feel unable to cross in other parts of their life: a child may be a senior belt to and able to advise an adult, a 25yo "punk" may gain the respect of a 49 yo lawyer etc etc.

- they should be able to test the limits of their fighting skills in their controlled training, and hopefully won't feel the need to engage in additional unnecessary fighting

- people are joining a community and their behaviours reflect on that community: it's reasonable for people to want to be proud of the community, and hold each other to certain standards of conduct

- the experience of being encouraged in a process of long-term development - arguably more meaningful than school in that it's voluntary - and people can feel justifiably proud of continuing effort and progress

Personally, I find much of the Confuscian-influenced "ethics" espoused in the martial arts superficial and worthless. But, instructors may be targetting the lowest common denominator (re ethics, intellect, education, life experience) in their classes, and it may be doing them some good even if it rubs the majority the wrong way. People have to start somewhere, and simple guidelines like "don't fight unless you have to" and "respect your parents and teachers" probably do more good than harm....

It's the instructor's right to choose what activities and learning will be covered in their school. That's not to say students can't express the wish things were otherwise, but they should respect the instructor's right. They can leave if they want to, take their business where they get what they want. "Hey Honda, I really like your engineering, so I'll be angry if you don't build me a fridge 'cause I need that more than a car".

Interestingly, the two least respectable martial arts "masters" I've met were both keen "preachers", both violent criminals (literally) with clever facades. But there are a lot of genuinely well-meaning and decent instructors too, however naive.

While I agree that ethics are required by everyone, and not in any way unique to the martial arts, it's still true that the physical empowerment of martial artists does provide both increased risks to society should they abuse their abilities, and increased benefits should they use them responsibily and courageously, more so than with say tennis or flying kites. Other activities with similar potentials tend to harp on too: doctors, engineers, builders, teachers, accountants... educational courses for each such role will discuss ethics and place in society.

Cheers,

Tony

[ninjanurse]

I do, however, agree that leading by example is important, but not just for Martial Artists. Its important for society as a whole, and I think it is the responsibility of society as a whole to lead the younger generartions in the right way. I don't think it is the responsibility of Martial Arts training, or Martial Artists to head this parade; its EVERYONE'S responsibiltiy.

It is society's responsibility but often not the reality. Anything that I can do to affect young lives is all good-even if it's just one person. Taking it "out of the dojo and into the world" is the philosophy that I encourage at my school . Of course there are those who could care less about philosophy and there are schools out there for them.

[bushido_man96]

I do, however, agree that leading by example is important, but not just for Martial Artists. Its important for society as a whole, and I think it is the responsibility of society as a whole to lead the younger generartions in the right way. I don't think it is the responsibility of Martial Arts training, or Martial Artists to head this parade; its EVERYONE'S responsibiltiy.

It is society's responsibility but often not the reality. Anything that I can do to affect young lives is all good-even if it's just one person. Taking it "out of the dojo and into the world" is the philosophy that I encourage at my school . Of course there are those who could care less about philosophy and there are schools out there for them.

That's a good philosophy, too. But, I think that it would be better if instead it came from outside the dojo, to inside of it. Just my thoughts, though, and I think that more people actually teach kids to be good an responsible than don't, as well.

[Preacher]

Ego - the quintessential root of so many unwarranted brawls. Sadly this goes back to the dojo, the improper guidance to the student and the inability of the teacher to weed out bad sticks. Note I said teacher and not Sensei, why you may ask. Oh its like anything else now a days. It seems money or politics over rides common sense.

A true practitioner whose been doing it few quite a few years will not engage in trivial brawls. Why because a practitioner with years of training behind him/her is a formidable force to fight some John Doe is to feed the ego. I equate a practitioner fighting against a john doe with no knowledge or training is equal to putting in a poodle into a ring with a professional TOSA. Useless and a waste of time, energy, and training.

JMO

[Preacher]

As for the Teacher/Sensei part of my comment. There are so so many teachers out there now a days but there are a few true Sensei's. My comment is mostly directed to Western Culture. Granted I'm sure several will take offense to my comment, and so be it. However I a classic example of why people look at MA with crossed eyes is because of the 9 yr old black belts, the half crocked instructors who have limited clue of their own style's history, and because of stuff like this

I have no clue as to what purpose this display is meant accomplish. I'm sure there are others that will comment on the demonstration or type of tournament's like this but to me tournaments/displays like this is an embarrassment to the true practitioners of the Martial Arts.

Just my opinion.

[Throwdown0850]

I agree. I didn't take up Martial Arts training for internal aspects of self-improvement, or to become a better person; I like to think I was a pretty good person already. I wanted to learn how to fight/defend myself, and everything else is just a bonus.

I do, however, agree that leading by example is important, but not just for Martial Artists. Its important for society as a whole, and I think it is the responsibility of society as a whole to lead the younger generartions in the right way. I don't think it is the responsibility of Martial Arts training, or Martial Artists to head this parade; its EVERYONE'S responsibiltiy.

My thoughts exactly, I took MA to learn how to fight, that is all.

[sifunovac]

By reading some of these posts, I think some of you need to train in Asia for a bit.

MAs training is as much a character building thing as it is a physical training thing.