"Not all Martial Artists are honorable..."

[bushido_man96]

This is actually a title form a Mailbox submission in the April 2009 issue of BBM. In the letter, the author mentions how a Martial Artist went to visit the troops in the Middle East, and failed to impress. He was claimed to have been obnoxious and arrogant, and complained incessantly and was self-centered.

The author didn’t mention the stylist’s affiliation, MMA, TMA, RBSD, or otherwise. What he did mention was the lack of character, and that all MAists should view character enhancement as a primary concern. His closing remarks conclude that if combat effectiveness and technique lethality are the only gauge of being a good Martial Artist, then terrorists could be considered great Martial Artists.

I like the title of his letter, so I chose it to title this thread, and I think it is something important to consider. People value different attributes; even MAists. Someone may be arrogant, but still be an excellent Martial Artist. You also have to consider crossing cultural boundaries. Different cultures value different attributes and ideals. Think of war; there are great warriors/MAists on each side, but who is good/right and who is right/wrong depends on which side you are on. I view the Martial Arts in the same light.

Gichin Funakoshi is noted for stating that the first priority of the practice of Karate is the improvement of one’s character (not the exact quote, but the general idea behind it). I respect what Funakoshi did as a Karateka, and I respect his ideal and philosophies, but I respect them as his own, and not as mine. I don’t hold the same values that he does in the same light. Now, I am not stating that I don’t value character development at all; that is far from the truth. I am not a bad, evil person who only views physical prowess as the end-all, be-all of training. I just think that it should not be the job of the Martial Arts instructor to instill this development on the masses. If character development is a side-effect of the training, then I think that is great. But in the end, most adults are already set in their ways as to what they value as far as character traits goes, so the likelihood that I am going to affect that is not that great. That doesn’t mean that I will take on violent criminals as students, either. I just won’t push my views and ideals on others. That is their choice to make, as practitioners. After all, it is their journey through the Martial Arts, and not mine.

Okay, I've said my peace; now let the fire and brimstone begin to fall!!

[tallgeese]

None from here.

I agree, ma's are about fighting. For me, that 's pretty much the end of the story. Any charater enhancment that occurs is primarily of a secondary nature. As I stated somewhere else, often thru humbling encounters on the floor.

There are guys with great integrety that do ma's, guys with little that are very good, and som with high levels of honor who occassionally do dumb things. We're just as far around that territory as the rest of mankind.

[Kuma]

None from here either. Chotoku Kyan comes to mind.

http://www.edbis.com/images/knopki/kyan1.jpg

He believed a MAist should be able to handle any and all indecencies thrown at it, so he would often take his students to bars and brothels. He was also quite a nasty fighter.

[Harlan]

It came as a complete surprise to discover this truism, and the deeper one digs...the more it comes up. Very disheartening.

Best to avoid the nasties, and stick to one's own training situation.

[Traymond]

Martial arts is about fighting...alot of it...But I think that your personal characteristics should from from within your home...your own morals, and those morals should just be complimented by martial arts.

[joesteph]

I am not stating that I don’t value character development at all; that is far from the truth. . . . If character development is a side-effect of the training, then I think that is great. But in the end, most adults are already set in their ways as to what they value as far as character traits goes, so the likelihood that I am going to affect that is not that great.

I'm sure that character development can incorporate greater self-confidence in terms of self-defense, and a boost in self-esteem when thinking of the different aspects of the art that the student discovers greater personal proficiency in performing. This character development can be for anyone of any age, but adults were specifically referred to.

There are character traits, as Brian pointed out, plus clusters of traits, and even source traits that are the roots of the clusters. When speaking of adults, these have been formed for the most part, and though personality is believed to continue to undergo changes right through to old age, it isn't as pronounced during the adult years as during the formative ones.

I'd say that the martial arts fulfill certain adult desires, such as self-defense and personal enjoyment of artistic growth, but they are not character developers per se during the adult years. I'm sure there are anecdotes contary to what I've said, but, for the most part, when I think of martial arts and character development, I think of the formative years.

[bushido_man96]

I do think that some adults do seek something to change them in some way, and at times, it could be the MA training that opens the door to this change. And that's fine. But not everyone is looking for this kind of change, or to be influenced in one way or another. I am like that. I am set in my ways, and I am not likely to have any kind of epiphany any time soon that will wake me to a different way of viewing the world or myself. Its just the way I am. But if one goes looking for it, then that is their choice.

[Tiger1962]

People become martial artists or study the martial arts for different reasons. I don't know what anyone else's reasons are, but I know my own. I began it for several reasons, & one of them was not to improve my character or standing in my community. I like who I am. I am not an "evil, bad person" in society. One of the reasons I began was simply for physical fitness reasons.

When you join a martial arts school, sometimes you either get pressured, cajoled, or roped into things by your instructor that you had no intention of doing such as participating in community affairs and whatnot. You might join a school with the mere intent of just learning a physical activity and then all this other stuff & strings attached comes along with it. Sometimes you comply to avoid being singled out as the rebel and sometimes you just want to say "hey, after class, I need to go home and take care of my life & my responsibilities." Not everyone has the time, desire or inclination to be a volunteer or mentor or whatever. And people should not be looked down upon for that.

Some martial arts practitioners strive to be outstanding community people, that's their agenda. They want to be worshipped as "heroes". Some want to emulate their instructor almost obsessively and want to "be like their teacher" in every way possible thereby forgetting "who THEY are" as individuals. (I call these people martial arts groupies" and most of the time it's the young adults who are like this). Some think that their m.a. instructor is perfect and can do no wrong, no matter what -- they are so blinded by hero worship & naive loyalty that they fail to see that their instructor is a human being with character flaws, emotions, and makes mistakes and judgment errors just like everyone else does. If someone wants a role model, there are plenty to choose from besides martial artists.

Bottom line is and this can't always be avoided, is that martial artists should not have the pressure to be all these things that society makes them out to be. We train, we learn different things, we are HUMAN; if you WANT to be a role model, a protector, bodyguard, mentor, etc. then great - but if you just want to go to class, train, learn, workout and then go home - that should be fine too. I've no desire to be the town hero or savior, or follow in my instructor's footsteps - "step by step". Being a martial artist is not the same as being President, its not any role as such that requires one to be a "perfect" person in any way, all the time, except in training and even in that, we are all constantly learning and improving in our technique. Bottom line is there should not be any pressure to be anything more than........a martial artist!

[Grego]

Character is VERY important in martial arts.

If you look throughout history, the Warrior-caste has always been bound by a code of behavior. Samurai followed Bushido, European Knights followed Chivalry.

Even today, the US Army has the "Army Values"

The reasoning behind this is that we teach potentially deadly techniques. We don't want thugs and criminals to know them. That is why improving your character should be so important.

Martial arts are not about fighting. They are about self-defense and self-improvement.

[tallgeese]

I agree that some sort of structure is needed by the warrior to keep anarchy from setting in. This is easily provided by the law of the land and proper instruction in use of force and an understanding of the consequences of actions. That's part of application.

Again, I'm not saying someone couldn't or shouldn't use ma's as a way to develop charater, I'm just saying that it dosn't need to be a core reason for training.

Most of the guys I work with are adults with their own set of values and charater already established. They're on the mat to train for conflict. Not develop any sort of internal goals.

Let's also not forget that most of the concepts we have of chivalry and bushido affected fighting men of the time are largely romantic in nature. While they were in place at the time, let's not forget that these men were primarily concerned with warfare.

As for fighting v. self defense, there's a thread around here somewhere regarding the terms. To me there's a hair of difference, but not much of one. To me they are largely synonomous.