Leg vs Foot kicking

[RW]

I have a karate background and I kave always kicked with the feet (instep in mawashi geri, for instance).

A friend does Muay Thai and he kicks with the shins.

How good is this? I mean, it's pretty easy to break your shin if the kick is blocked right at the middle(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK0NykA_kk).

While the bones of the instep are smaller, the area itself is not as long, the impact spot is different and... in real life you use shoes, anyway.

What do you guys this? I don't want to turn this into a _____ vs. Muay Thai flame war, let's just focus on kicking with the shin vs kicking with the foot.

2) I also see that when kicking with the shin the technique is different? No "snap", which I was always told it is an advantage so they don't grab your leg if you miss.

[ps1]

I have a karate background and I kave always kicked with the feet (instep in mawashi geri, for instance).

A friend does Muay Thai and he kicks with the shins.

How good is this? I mean, it's pretty easy to break your shin if the kick is blocked right at the middle(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK0NykA_kk).

While the bones of the instep are smaller, the area itself is not as long, the impact spot is different and... in real life you use shoes, anyway.

What do you guys this? I don't want to turn this into a _____ vs. Muay Thai flame war, let's just focus on kicking with the shin vs kicking with the foot.

2) I also see that when kicking with the shin the technique is different? No "snap", which I was always told it is an advantage so they don't grab your leg if you miss.

With respect, it's certainly possible to break your shin while kicking. However, it's not easy. The Tibia (shin) is one of the strongest bones in the body and is far less likely to break than the tarsal bones of the instep.

The shin, being a very strong bone, is dense and causes much more damage to the opponent than the instep will. That's why you see it more in mma. The snapping kicks with an instep are seen more often in point sparring because they are fast.

Think of it as the difference between a jab (snapping kick) and a cross (shin kick). The jab is used to set up more powerful strikes. The cross is, ideally, a knockout strike. They both have merit if you use them properly.

[tallgeese]

I use almost exclusively the shin to kick with on rounds. I like to think of it as nature's baseball bat.

It is possible to break it, sure. But the instances of that aactaully happenining are much lower than the small bones of the instep breaking. Espically if your bloscking with thinks like elbows, knees, and shins.

About the only time I'll use a different surface is on different kickes (ie. the front or occassional side) where another contact point is mandated.

For rounds, it's the shin all the way. And I tend to delevier it with an intent to drive through. Most of the time I target the legs, so a snapping motion is not helpful.

[JusticeZero]

I teach shin, just above the ankle, for roundhouses; sole of shoe for crescent and reaping type kicks. The tongue of a shoe isn't enough protection for the small bones and joint assemblage of the instep, in my eyes. Some use the ball of the foot for those kicks; I don't personally feel comfortable with that position, but it is not one I need for my art. Shins are a solid bar of dense bone, instep is an assembly of small bones and joints; I would rather hit with a solid structure.

[joesteph]

I think it's good to be able to roundhouse with both instep and shin, but there's always the preference of the kicker.

I left out kicking with the ball of the foot, simply because it's impossible for me to bring the toes that far back when doing a roundhouse. When I tried, I repeatedly jammed my toes against the target, so I had to tap to execute. A dan member working with me encouraged me to use the instep, and the power--w/o jams--built up. But when I decided on my own to experiment with the shin, whoever was holding the target would let me know the power comparison, and it was always in favor of the shin.

Edited March 8, 2009 by joesteph

[joesteph]

A friend does Muay Thai and he kicks with the shins. . . .

What do you guys this? I don't want to turn this into a _____ vs. Muay Thai flame war, let's just focus on kicking with the shin vs kicking with the foot.

When I was practicing a sparring technique on Friday, first with a fellow adult and then with a pre-teen, what we practiced was not so much for self-defense (although it could be) as it was for tournament sparring.

Whenever the adult was the attacker, his roundhouse was with the instep, and I would block the kick; whenever I attacked the adult, my roundhouse was with the shin, and he would block my kick. When I performed this sparring technique with the boy, I was then asked by my teacher to be back a bit more to strike with the instep, which my young partner would block.

I'm not going to criticize my teacher. These kids really look forward to tournaments, and Muay Thai roundhouses are not permitted in Soo Bahk Do tournaments. It's not in the art. When I took self-defense JuJitsu, we did roundhouses that were only Muay Thai-style, and my teacher has studied formally with my former JuJitsu sensei, so she's well-acquainted with the kick. She still attends a class of his every so often to keep up with it.

Some arts keep things the way the founder had it. and I believe my art is one of them. I also believe, though, that if you're free-sparring, contact or non-contact, or in an actual fight, and you're an infighter, as I am, having a Muay Thai roundhouse in your arsenal is no handicap.

[bushido_man96]

The shin kick is a better kick, with a better striking tool, in my opinion.

The vids that I have seen were of shins breaking on shins, and there aren't that many of them out there to state that the spot isn't good to hit with. People break their hands punching others in the head, but you still see training in head punches. Sometimes, crap just happens.

Now, with that said, I do lots of kicking with the foot, the ball and instep. I have broken boards in the past with the instep, although I don't think it is the brightest thing I have ever done in my life. In the end, your target is going to be a deciding factor in the tool used, as well. Its tough (but not impossible..) to shin kick someone in the head. But to the leg, shin kicking is going to get you better results than a kick with the instep.

[sensei8]

Kicking with ones shin is akin to striking with a baseball bat. Striking with ones foot is akin to being struck with a 90mph fastball. Therefore, I'd rather hit someone with a baseball bat than with a baseball.

The shin offers a more larger area to strike with! The foots striking area is much smaller. Both have their advantages as well as their weaknesses; therefore, choose your weapon, choose it acorrding to preference/circumstances, and choose them well.

[MMA_Jim]

Kicking with the instep is a bad hangover from point sparring and improper technique.

You're more likely to break the small bones in your foot than you are a large bone like the tibia. Not only that, but a conditioned thai fighter makes weapons out of his shins. A cut kick from a foot doesnt really hurt (and will almost certainly break if checked). A cut kick from a shin bone hurts like a mother, and is much more suitable for the job

[Kuma]

I kick with both, as I feel the shin is more powerful for gedan and chudan roundhouse kicks. However, I still prefer the instep for high kicks, but that's more personal preference than anything. I like to crush through the legs and torso, but I want to snap at the head.