America and England

[Bitseach]

Eye of Tiger - no it's true that the UK has more public surveillance than a lot of places. In fact I seem to remember the US banning a lot of CCTV surveillance that was suggested to combat terrorism after September. Interestingly, it is because of the influence of Irish terrorism in the UK that we prompted the greater use of CCTV initially. Whlst I don't know how many Irish terrorists have been caught as a result, the "Soho nail bomber" - a right-wing nutcase fascist type who planted bombs targetting black people, Asians and gays - was tracked down after extensive video footage was examined from each case. You might find that it is an unpleasant expedient in The War Against Terrorism (what idiot thought that phrase up - did he not think of the acronym it would produce??!)

 

I still wouldn't call us a police state though - if you'd been here, Don, you'd see how much less of a police state it is than the US, where a lot of hte small local forces seem to have an awful lot of autonomy.

 

ALso UK police are RELATIVELY smart compared with US cops too, who seem like knuckle-dragging neanderthals by comparison. They seem to be more interested in getting personal respect and body-building than the law or society from any that I've met or seen! Admittedly my personal experience is all of the midwestern states and a few LAPD officers I've known (except for those I've seen on TV) but they were all total yokels! Are there no entrance exams to be a cop in the States?? (serious question!)

 

Over there it seems you can be arrested for "contempt of cop". Interestingly an American friend of mine got off a parking ticket in London once after she called the police officer, "sir". The poor chap nearly fell of the pavement in shock! I just tried to keep my face straight!

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

I don't really know. We have a certain number of fools and knuckle draggers, of course, but it depends where you go. In my own town, the police department is pretty badly screwed up. Lots of losers in this town and they seem intent on hiring more. However, a couple of towns over they're excellent. We call pretty much everybody sir, but authority figures do tend to call for that and we do consider police officers authority figures when they've pulled us over.

 

I know that to be hired in my town you have to go through the police academy that's offered in the capital, but they will sometimes hire someone who has not and send him through on the city's dime. See, you have to have the course to be hired, but you're not allowed to take the course without the sponsorship of a department that has hired you. Hard to break in.

 

Seriously, Bitseach, I think you should check out The Firing Line. Lots of cops, lots of citizens running the gamut from those who think cops can do no wrong to those who hate all cops equally. I think you might find it interesting. You will have to tone down the attitude a little, though. Personal attacks will get you banned. The address is in my sig if you're interested.

 

In the meantime, let me dig out the Lawdog Tales. I have them here somewhere. I think you all might enjoy a look at life in rural Texas through the eyes of a small-town law officer. Lawdog's real name is Ian McMurtrie and for most of his youth he was more British than American. Grew up in Nigeria, Libya, and other fun places. Now he is simply. . . the Lawdog.

[Don Gwinn]

Here's one. Actually, Ian's mom, signed in as "LawMom," posted this one for all of us to enjoy:

 

Stories LawDog DOESN'T tell...

 

Thanksgiving Day, 1994. Bubba (name changed to protect the...you get the idea) Green heads out to the Oasis Bar north of town. He's feeling a little rambunctious, and proceeds to down large quantities of his favorite libation. So goes the evening until Bubba winds up dancing on top of one of the pool tables.

 

Now Bubba is (I'm not kidding) six feet, nine inches tall. And he's not what one would call svelte. Matter-of-fact, the town doctor swears that when Mrs. Green delivered Bubba, they heard the scream in Abilene. Big old boy.

 

The owner of the Oasis, having gone through similar situations in the past, feeds four quarters into the jukebox and punches up "The Yellow Rose of Texas."

 

Bubba, as was his wont, climbs down off the pool table, removes his hat and stands to attention while the song played. Normally, at this point, Bubba would be eased out the door into a pickup bed or trailer, driven home and poured onto his front porch. Normally.

 

Bubba, who is weaving a bit towards the end of the song, glances around and sees a young cowpoke who has neglected to remove his chapeau during Bubba's song. Bubba heroically restrains himself until "The Yellow Rose of Texas" winds down, then reaches over and throws the cowboy *through* the wall of the bar.

 

An older cowboy peers through the gaping hole in the wall and sighs, "Goldurnit, Bubba. That was muh top hand." The bartender says a Nasty Word, dives for the phone and hits the speedial for 911 as the other cowboys from that ranch, obeying West Texas feudal law, pile onto Bubba.

 

Pandemonium ensues.

 

Into the fray steps one LawDog. He sizes up the free-for-all and, in a move that generated gossip for nigh-on six months, he jerks a mop bucket from behind the bar and empties it onto the mighty struggle in the center of the room. Sudden shocked silence. Without a word, the lawman grabs Bubba by one ear and drags him out of the bar. Once outside, the minion of the law proceeds to chastize Bubba in fine, rolling language, threatening Bubba with God, Jesus, Mary and all the saints.

 

According to a witness, the scene looked for all the world, "Like a fire-and-brimstone prarie dog preachin' the Gospel to a Brahma bull."

 

The the lawman got nasty: He invoked Bubba's Mama. Spoke of the shame that Bubba was bringing down on that goodly lady. At length. Using them three dollar words. Had Bubba in tears by the time he was done.

 

Which was probably not the best idea the 'Dog ever had, because Bubba, being totally undone by the thought of the horror he was bringing unto his Mama, felt he had to proceed directly to the old homestead and beg forgiveness from his Mama. To which LawDog responds that Bubba is "going to jail, and that's that."

 

Over the car sails LawDog. Never even touched paint. Hell of a throw on Bubba's part. Set a new World Record in Cop Tossing.

 

'Dog stands up, brushes the dust off his jeans, stalks back around the front of the cruiser, reaches waaaaa-aaaaaaay up, pokes Bubba in the chest and snarls, "Don't make me hurt you, Bubba."

 

Bubba's second try at Cop Tossing beat the first by several feet, even clearing the lightbar on this go. Only this time, 'Dog bounces back over the hood of the car with a five battery flashlight and a can of mace. Bubba goes to jail, but it takes LawDog about 10 or 15 minutes to get the job done.

 

And during that 15 minutes, the local DPS trooper was having hysterics on the hood of his shamu car. Each time he calmed down enough to give 'Dog a hand, he'd whisper, "Don't make me hurt you, Bubba" and start whooping with laughter again.

 

LawDog swears that he didn't say those words, by the way.

 

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Maybe in London Bitseach, but here in the south no CCTV cameras.

 

Who here thinks English police should start carrying guns rather than relying on a little black stick.

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, that's up to you guys. But I wouldn't want to walk around London without a gun, much less enforce the law. All respect to the bobbies.