The way the ranking systems tend to work....

[tallgeese]

Fighter...martial artist...all name of the same to me.

No, you don't need all that stuff to be complete. At least not for what I want out of the ma's. It happens anyway in lots of cases due to the humility often enforced, ect. Still, it's not a primary goal of mine, nor do I try to make it one of my student's. If it occurs on a secondary basis, then so much the better.

[Espina]

Does everybody think the same?

I mean, I think that's exactly the difference between a Master like Kanazawa and a fighter like Tito Ortiz

[Traymond]

Fighter...martial artist...all name of the same to me.

No, you don't need all that stuff to be complete. At least not for what I want out of the ma's. It happens anyway in lots of cases due to the humility often enforced, ect. Still, it's not a primary goal of mine, nor do I try to make it one of my student's. If it occurs on a secondary basis, then so much the better.

But when you also look at it...your arts are fighting arts. not really anything infused with a spiritual basis...unless its Kempo...but kempo has been so fused wither other influences its hard to say...

[Espina]

Of course, they are fighting arts... but you have to keep a lot of respect for your opponent...

You wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for the people who train with you... and if you don't keep a high lever of respect and understanding, you won't be able to go far.

Remeber, you are hitting each other. Normal people don't do that hehehehe, so you always need a lot of control and respect helps you build that.

I think you need a good set of values because if you don't understand these kind of things, every time you train you'll be fighting, instead of practicing, and that will prevent you from growing.

[Traymond]

You should always practice and not fight, but yet you should also know and be able to fight when you have to, and not a moment later.

[Espina]

Master Ramon Lono Ancho (10th dan KodenKan Jiu Jitsu) used to say:I don't train you to be fighters, I train you to be Martial Artists. Nevertheless, if you MUST get in a fight and there is no way you can just leave...make sure your opponent is the one going to the hospital".

He also said " If a fight takes more than 30 seconds...it's a hell of a problem" hehehehehe

[Traymond]

Hmmm I love how every master I talk to or I read their quotes I love how their philosophies on violence and fighting differ. Its refreshing to get reminded we are all humans and our thoughts are all different, thats why so many people cannot get along with each other.

[Espina]

That's something really beautiful. Every Master has his own opinion about fighting, but they are never contradictory... they are complementary

Master Ancho was an ex green beret, he fought in Vietnam and he also was a magnificent martial artist.

[Traymond]

I have had masters tell me that his art is only for fighting, while someone doing the same style would tell me its spiritual I like to live in both of their philosophies.

[tallgeese]

To the ealier mention of a ma master in comparison to Tito, I'd have to say that I see them as about the same. Only different diciplines and focal points, that's all.

Where the trad master might have more sd arsenal at his disposal (eye gouges, small joint manipulations, ect.), Tito will likely have an edge in exposue to "live" training methods and heavy contact training.

In the end they are both training to hurt another human being. I have no problem with ma-ers using their training to reach philosophical goals, I don't see it as a mandantory componant. Just part of what they might include as axallary training.