The way the ranking systems tend to work....

[Traymond]

I agree $300 is way too high for a certificate and a belt regardless of what the rank is. As sensei8 said, it is NOT a down payment on a car, house or other item as such, etc.

The other thing is to my knowledge the testing panel in my organization is volunteering their time and do not get paid; however, we are told any fees go towards the support, maintenance and running the "parent organization". That being the case, in my opinion, I still feel that the testing fee is too high, especially since members pay annual dues in addition to any testing fees.

As far as the individuals on the testing panel, well they are all of senior ranking and its very likely you will run into the same people at every test although they rotate between divisions and groups. Sometimes lack of available volunteers make this happen even more so. You could very well get someone from your own school judging you, or someone you sparred with at a tournament, or someone you just plain ole don't care for and then "hope" they will judge you competently AND without bias.

yes I forgot to add that kyu members must pay 50 dollars every year to hold membership with the organization, Dan members must pay 100 dollars a year to continue to be members....unless your on the board of directors or on the testing board...

[Espina]

You must keep something in mind... traditional karate only had two belts: white and black.

The Kyu system was implemented when Karate was brought to Occident.

As westerns, we are always specting some kind of promotion, some kind of reward or ranking. We don't have the patience of oriental people, and therefore the Kyu system works for us.

I can tell you, though, that as I was getting near to the black belt I was also understanding the importance of patience and also an internal feeling that says whenever you are ready or not, which is backed by your Sen Sei.

I think that initial promotion is good, because that makes you feel more important and is an incentive to keep doing martial arts.

But I also thing that as you go near the black belt, you should be asked to have a neat performance, a full set of values, complete respect for others and a willing to do good.

Otherwise you are not a martial artist, you are a simple fighter.

[Traymond]

You must keep something in mind... traditional karate only had two belts: white and black.

The Kyu system was implemented when Karate was brought to Occident.

As westerns, we are always specting some kind of promotion, some kind of reward or ranking. We don't have the patience of oriental people, and therefore the Kyu system works for us.

I can tell you, though, that as I was getting near to the black belt I was also understanding the importance of patience and also an internal feeling that says whenever you are ready or not, which is backed by your Sen Sei.

I think that initial promotion is good, because that makes you feel more important and is an incentive to keep doing martial arts.

But I also thing that as you go near the black belt, you should be asked to have a neat performance, a full set of values, complete respect for others and a willing to do good.

Otherwise you are not a martial artist, you are a simple fighter.

And if you are able to do all that in an extremely small time would you say that it would be ok to waive the time restraints?

[Espina]

Well, there are always exceptions

For example, Master Kanazawa comes to my mind.

He got his black belt in a couple of years, but janitors at the college he was attending said he never stopped training, even when it was 3 am, Master Kanazawa was practicing katas and kumite techniques by himself.

I can't remember the name of Master Kanazawa's Sen Sei, but I'm sure he had to be more than confident that he was giving the black belt to an outstanding student, since Master Kanazawa is now a 10 Dan Shotokan Kaycho (for the Shotokan International Karate Federation)

[Traymond]

And lets not forget Abbe Kenshiro Docho....dan level achieved in kendo at an early teen year,

[Espina]

I don't know about Abbe Kenshiro Docho. Could you tell me more about him, please?

[bushido_man96]

You must keep something in mind... traditional karate only had two belts: white and black.

The Kyu system was implemented when Karate was brought to Occident.

I believe that Funakoshi brought the rank system to the schools of Japan before it came to the West.

But I also thing that as you go near the black belt, you should be asked to have a neat performance, a full set of values, complete respect for others and a willing to do good.

Otherwise you are not a martial artist, you are a simple fighter.

As I have noted before, I don't feel that this is mandatory for the study of Martial Arts, but is the philosophy of a few that has been handed down for generations of practitioners. Although they are nice, I don't view them as requirments. After all, these values should already be set, in my mind, before a Martial Art is even studied.

[Espina]

But I also thing that as you go near the black belt, you should be asked to have a neat performance, a full set of values, complete respect for others and a willing to do good.

Otherwise you are not a martial artist, you are a simple fighter.

As I have noted before, I don't feel that this is mandatory for the study of Martial Arts, but is the philosophy of a few that has been handed down for generations of practitioners. Although they are nice, I don't view them as requirments. After all, these values should already be set, in my mind, before a Martial Art is even studied.

I agree with you, these things are not necessary to study martial arts...but as I stated before -and my guess is that many will agree with me-, if you don't have them, then won't become a complete martial artist, you will become a fighter.

[bushido_man96]

But I also thing that as you go near the black belt, you should be asked to have a neat performance, a full set of values, complete respect for others and a willing to do good.

Otherwise you are not a martial artist, you are a simple fighter.

As I have noted before, I don't feel that this is mandatory for the study of Martial Arts, but is the philosophy of a few that has been handed down for generations of practitioners. Although they are nice, I don't view them as requirments. After all, these values should already be set, in my mind, before a Martial Art is even studied.

I agree with you, these things are not necessary to study martial arts...but as I stated before -and my guess is that many will agree with me-, if you don't have them, then won't become a complete martial artist, you will become a fighter.

I think that you can still become the complete Martial Artist. Everyone will have their own view of what the complete Martial Artist is, so to blanket everyone to the same ideals is not a fair assumption to make, in my opinion.

[Espina]

But I also thing that as you go near the black belt, you should be asked to have a neat performance, a full set of values, complete respect for others and a willing to do good.

Otherwise you are not a martial artist, you are a simple fighter.

As I have noted before, I don't feel that this is mandatory for the study of Martial Arts, but is the philosophy of a few that has been handed down for generations of practitioners. Although they are nice, I don't view them as requirments. After all, these values should already be set, in my mind, before a Martial Art is even studied.

I agree with you, these things are not necessary to study martial arts...but as I stated before -and my guess is that many will agree with me-, if you don't have them, then won't become a complete martial artist, you will become a fighter.

I think that you can still become the complete Martial Artist. Everyone will have their own view of what the complete Martial Artist is, so to blanket everyone to the same ideals is not a fair assumption to make, in my opinion.

Once again, I agree with you : Every one has a personal point of view for this matter, but I would love to hear opinions from other people, just to know if for them these values are an essential part of a martial artist or not.