The way the ranking systems tend to work....

[bushido_man96]

...usually, the earlier ranks tend to have shorter waits in between, like 3 months or the like. The higher ranks have longer periods in between.

I have often wondered if this does not seem backwards? From a learning curve standpoint, the first few months of class are the hardest for new students, because there are so many things to learn; basics, stances, learning new movements for your body, getting past the ackwardness, etc.

To me, it seems that the early ranks should have more time between the testings, as this is the time when the student is really needing to get down the basic movements, like being able to step and punch without having to stop and think where they are punching, what stance they are in, the weight distribution on the legs, etc.

I would think that at the higher levels, when you have a few years of experience in, and the learning curve is smaller, then there would be briefer spats of time between the testings.

Any thoughts on this?

I know that many times the higher ranks are made to wait mainly due to the idea of a probationary period, or to force them to "stick it out" and earn their way to the next level. From a needs standpoint, though, I think it would be more helpful for the lower ranks.

[tallgeese]

Hmm... interesting.

I think that the shorter testing period early should be due largely to a limited amount of information required for learining. For instance, how much do you really require for the white to yellow move?

A stance or two, movement that's basic from it. A handful of punches, a kick or two. Maybe a basic joit position or two. Falls/rolls?

Now, compare that with a purple to brown. All your hands, feet, knees elbows (in increments of course). Serious joint work and the ability to move freely between them. Ground work, weapons (defense/use). It starts to get big just on the information side.

More importantly, I think that it's the ability to use them fluidly when called for that is most key at your high kyu ranks. That can take lots of reps and time to get a basic handle on.

Now, once you hit bb I think you've got a couple of reasons for the slow down. First up, there is the "paying your dues" thing. More importantly, you've got to expect the student to really start developing his own intrensic approach to his art at this point. That can take some time, and it should for trail and error to really start to set in.

Now, all of that being said I think a longer testing time for the white/yellow grade isn't a bad idea. Again, this is where I come back to just not testing anyone until you're sure that they are ready to pass. That might mean they go longer. But this is much easier for me being in a small group than other instructors.

[DWx]

I agree with what your saying but I think its ok how its is. In fact the more I think about it the better I think it is with regular gradings at the beginning and then tapering off to the end.

At lower levels its better to have short term goals to think about rather than perfecting each move. A lot of the things you mentioned I think come with practice rather than dedicated work; as long as you get it sort of right you can move on. I think its probably harder at the level to perfect it anyway because you don't really understand the principles of the style.

For the majority of students the regular assesment at that level is also good from a motivational point of view. Keeps you focused on a curriculem, lets you know that you're doing it right and keeps you interested. Kids like having a new belt every couple of months and I think to some extent adults do too. When you get to the higher grades new belts becomes less of an issue. You'd presume the person has some dedication when they reach this point so its up to them to go away and start taking an indepth look at things. Especially at blackbelt levels when you have a year + before grading again. Thats the time to start refining what you've learnt and developing your own personal style and flair. You're off the lead and allowed to do what you want with your techniques.

Another thing I've found is that at the later stages people tend to get more serious about competition (if thats your thing). You've got enough techniques under your belt (pun intended ) to be a fairly competent MAist and its also about the right level for competition to be challenging and something that requires serious dedication. In my style the opportunity is there to compete internationally too and a lot people work towards this. Also for similar reasons a good time to take a break and seriously look into aspects of cross training.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for the replies. Good answers, too.

I see what tg is saying about early testing requirements. But, at our school, the basics are pretty involved, and all ranks do the same basics. But, I digress.

The motivational factor is something to think about, too. It does help with the kids, but with adults, I think it might be less so.

School focus may have a part in the process, too.

[Tiger1962]

...usually, the earlier ranks tend to have shorter waits in between, like 3 months or the like. The higher ranks have longer periods in between.

I have often wondered if this does not seem backwards? From a learning curve standpoint, the first few months of class are the hardest for new students, because there are so many things to learn; basics, stances, learning new movements for your body, getting past the ackwardness, etc.

To me, it seems that the early ranks should have more time between the testings, as this is the time when the student is really needing to get down the basic movements, like being able to step and punch without having to stop and think where they are punching, what stance they are in, the weight distribution on the legs, etc.

I would think that at the higher levels, when you have a few years of experience in, and the learning curve is smaller, then there would be briefer spats of time between the testings.

Any thoughts on this?

I know that many times the higher ranks are made to wait mainly due to the idea of a probationary period, or to force them to "stick it out" and earn their way to the next level. From a needs standpoint, though, I think it would be more helpful for the lower ranks.

I agree with you and one reason I suspect may be the answer is because perhaps studio owners are afraid that early in the training, students will get discouraged and quit and so they will end up losing a student (and $$$$). But I agree with you in that early in the training is when it should be more intense and longer spaces between promotions because that is when one is building the foundation of what they learn.

[Traymond]

It also depends on what style as well. Like in Uechi Ryu a strong emphasis on the basics are ultimately needed to continue through ranks. Such as Sanchin and Sanchin Kitae, it is done almost at every class. Their wait between ranks are longer because of the reason, that you need to keep these basics with you at all times.

I think that higher ranks need to show that they have patience, before they can become a senior ranked member. This way it shows that they are not "anticipating" but yet they really are.

I for one dont like the time constraints. People who are really serious into martial arts tend to loose patience and then they leave never to be seen again.

[Kruczek]

I think the reason for this is the large number of "new" belts. If we were on a White, Green, Brown, Black system - then the curve wouldn't be nearly as bad. Because of the difficulty they made more belts to help people feel better about struggling to learn it.

That is how I see it anyway...

[Traymond]

I think the reason for this is the large number of "new" belts. If we were on a White, Green, Brown, Black system - then the curve wouldn't be nearly as bad. Because of the difficulty they made more belts to help people feel better about struggling to learn it.

That is how I see it anyway...

Thats a good point. But lets face it. Alot of people want it the American Way. Hot and ready as soon as possible, or they want their money back.

In one of my schools they want you to stay white belt for one month...not an unreasonable request, but people tend to think so. And then they have only three testing dates a year. So if they dont have that time constraint fulfilled than they may have to weight about four more extra months.

[Kruczek]

I look back to when I came through the kyu ranks and see months between my certificates. Then I look at now and see people being tested once every other month. It all revolves around a need to make money. I don't have a dojo, I just teach it to the guys at my school and therfore I teach it traditionally. At most I give out 3 to 5 certificates marking a Kyu level - and I only do that for the purpose of letting them know where they are at. No real belts...no testing fees or ceremonies...just some teaching and some learning.

[Traymond]

Alright, but why should we set so much space between them anyways. If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor. I hate schools that send you to test with a board of directors, that is stupid. The teacher knows his student the best and he or she should have sole responsibility in testing them. I am all for long waits from brown to black belt. Whether their is three sets of brown or just one brown belt. But at the lower kyu ranks we should be looking for reasons to promote them, and as they progress we should be looking for reasons not to promote them.

White to yellow or white to orange (depending on the school), is a breeze no matter what, so why make them wait for it? to show that they have patience, that should be instilled in their character from being around their instructor.