Anyone else upset over the common perception of SemiContact?

[123321]

A lot more of the bad reputation that "semi-contact" tournament fighters get is from the bad habits that it sometimes breeds. Reflexively stopping after contact, carrying your hands low(almost every fighter in the Youtube link carried their hands low, at least until they got hit), turning away from hits if your being over whelmed. Not all "semi-contact" fighters get these habits. But, until you give a tighter definition of "semi-contact", almost everyone is thinking your average, stop action TKD or Karate tourny.

If I say I'm a full contact karate fighter, that means something. Or a boxer, or an mma fighter. People understand that. If I say I'm sem-contact fighter, I think of light contact, stop when points are scored tournys. Bigger transition there to fighting skill. Combine that with the braggarts that have told how many trophies they have at home from fighting only to get killed at school when they ran their mouth too much and you get a bad reputation.

Yea I am referring to said "stop when points are scored" fighting. What's your opinion of that?

[joesteph]

Doing non- or semi-contact (or light contact . . .) on occasion enables someone to chance doing what s/he wouldn't do if it were full contact.

Last night, I was sparring non-contact because that's the rule. If there's light contact, I don't say anything. I took a chance on a back kick, doing it according to the way I was taught, but the kid I was sparring with did a side kick and his foot tapped my hip. He said "Sorry" and I said "It's okay," then finished my back kick anyway.

I should have done the hop back kick I'd been working on on my own to get that kick in faster. He only tapped me, but if it were non-contact, I don't think I'd even have realized I'd messed up my timing. If it were full contact, I'd never have tried either back kick. So I learned w/o injury that I can do the taught back kick in certain circumstances/situations, but not in the one presented to me, and nobody got hurt.

Light contact, semi-contact, light-to-moderate contact . . . they all have their uses, even if they aren't full contact. But I do think it's a good idea to have safety equipment on, even if it's "light" or "semi" contact.

[tori]

I maybe misunderstanding the topic here, but if you are looking for a full contact event, you have to seek them out. If you are attending local tournaments, well you have to expect that you are going to have point sparring. The people attending these types of tournaments want to go to work or school when monday roles around. These are not tournaments for the individual who wants and expects to go in there and fight full force 100% takedowns and blood. If you want that, look for it and train for it. They are fun and awesome to attend, but try not to criticize local school tournaments because they aren't what you are looking for your own training. Those tournaments are the feel good tournaments where everyone is meant to have a good time, try their best and win a trophy. Full contact is to win a title. Two totally different types of competition.

[joesteph]

Well said, Tori.

[tallgeese]

Here's my take. Terms are difficult to lock down and everyone uses them a bit differently, hence the confusion from time to time on things. We might be talking about the same thing but can't quite put it together because of a terminology breakdown.

Contact levels are that way, you really don't know how someone defines them until you've been on the mat a couple of times with them. It's not a bad thing, it's just the way it is. The "parry" term we're discussing on another thread is the same way. Each lineage has a slightly different take on it. Again, this isn't a problem, it just means we have to really tease out what we're talking about.

As to my feelings on semi or light or point contact (to clarify, I view all of these as just shades of the same thing), it's not so much the contact level that I have a problem with, it's the way it's trained for and the focus.

Many movements that score points in these tournys are so far removed from the reality of a fight that they have almost nothing to do with actaully mimicing hurting someone in a life or death contest. Action is often (not always) stopped after each contact, clearly a bad habit to form for anyone studying ma's for the purported idea of defending one's self. Tactics are largely determined by the"off- limits" rules of the tourney as to what is and isn't a point. These limits are often so restrictive that, again, we move very far from the reason that ma's exsist in the first place. Those are my major issues.

As to contact, I prefer a contact level for day to day training that lets me know I was hit but let's me work tomorrow, now personally, I don't mind working a bit beat up. I'm not sure what you'd call that contact level but it's the best I can descibe it. I've always referred to it as "functional" contact. I do think that heavier contact should be used periodically to ensure that you're conditioning mentally and physically for that eventuality, this is espcially true of doing sd scenarios with an armored baddie.

More than that, I prefer to use tool that actually could hurt someone in an altercation, thown at targets that would get this done with a methodology behind them that leads to improving your survivability in a fight, not just being good at sparring. To me, sparring is a continuation or part of the self defense training process, not a seperate entity to be practiced. One should lead to the other and the utilization of tools in sparring should directly realte to improving sd skills. Otherwise why do it?

Now, all that being ranted, I think everyone might not have the same goals at the end of the day as I do. This took me years to figure out, but not all ma-ist view fighting as the end result of what they do. So, if you like to point spar under those rules- go for it. And enjoy it. I'd just ask that people teaching and doing it realistically approach what it is that they are getting out of it. It might save a good deal of grief if faced with the threat of a real altercation.

[NightOwl]

If we are looking at semi-contact sparring as the one hit and stop version then I don't look favorably on it. It rewards light and quick kicks, instills bad habits, and doesn't nearly replicate the movements and tactics of a continuous fight (not to mention what it is like to actually hit and be hit at full power). In my opinion if you want to tone down the intensity level for training, beginners, and younger students- do light contact free sparring. You will get the conditioning you need and at least get the movements and timing down.

[ninjanurse]

Regarding TKD schools:At my school the adult classes are bigger than the kids classes and I expect the kids to make appropriate contact just as the adults do. I do not discourage full-contact at any age/level/group and I make it very clear from day one that it is a "contact activity".

Regarding Semi-contact: Contact is contact-it is the amount of force used that makes the difference. I prefer to use a scale or percentage when instructing so that each student learns his capabilities along with control. It is unfortunate that many schools, regardless of style, limit their students to "semi/light" contact and they never experience the full use/potential of their techniques. Of course, in a society that sues at the drop of a hat, liability often supersedes practicality.

[bushido_man96]

I think that another issue that goes hand-in-hand with this contact level question is also the target levels used.

Boxing is very full contact; but not full-body target. Kyokushin and Olympic TKD have about the same target areas, and close to the same contact levels; one just uses more protective equipment than the other. Judo is known for its use versus resisting opponents, and its full speed, but the targets are very restricted.

I think this kind of thing falls in with the contact level as well.