Efficiency and Effectiveness

[The BB of C]

Naturally different styles have a different range of "basics." What I considered as basics is the raw base of every different type of technique excluding kyoshujutsu.

[TamerlanKuzgov]

Efficiency and effectiveness do not always go hand in hand.

as i know the efficiency is always effectiveness and vice versa because efficiency means something what works in fight and effectiveness something what can give you a result in a fight..as we can see that's not divided parts but the one whole.

[Kuma]

I would consider the jab both effective and efficient. A well placed jab is like the key to the city: once the gates are open, you can come right in. Because of its efficiency, it may not be as effective as other techniques individually but as part of a combination it becomes quite effective.

For self protection purposes, the jab is a great tool to utilize in a situation where you are faced with an aggressor(s) where you need to exhibit some semblance of control. A problem with many martial artists is we tend to focus on the extremes in many cases and don't always consider that there may be a time when we don't need to respond full blast. If some drunk is picking a fight with you that you can't avoid, the jab combined with some defensive slipping will be enough to convince him of the error of his ways, or at least stall things long enough for others nearby to break up the fight. In this way you maintain control of the situation without seriously injuring the nincompoop who wouldn't back down.

[Tempest]

Ok, I am going to take a slightly different tack on this than most people because I am PRIMARILY a grappler, particularly a Judo player.

Our basics include movements that would qualify as combinations or even short Katas by most karate standards, however one of the prinicples of Judo is Seiryoku Zenyo, maximum efficiency for effort expended.

I believe efficiency is developed by an understanding of the way YOUR body works and learning not to waste any time or effort.

For example, I was at a tournament in Arlington, TX this past weekend and one of the things I noticed is that win or lose the more advanced practitioners matches would be over with quickly because they did not waste any time or effort.

[Tempest]

Another secret of efficiency is do drill the same movement over and over again until you are sick of it, and then drill it again.

When you have done about 5 to 10 THOUSAND fit-ins, with a decent instructor critiqueing you the whole way, then you will have a movement you can do efficiently.

[lit-arate]

It seems to me that the question of "Effectiveness" can be misleading. The beginning of the thread started out with this question, but it seems to have been buried.

Is the jab an effective finisher? Almost definitely not. Is the jab effective in a streetfight? Apparently, debatable. Is the jab effective at doing what a jab does, which is keeping one's opponent defensive, thinking about one's hands, and maybe convincing one's opponent to give away his or her favorite defense? Yep.

So, if the question is efficiency vs straight power, that's something you could actually measure: energy given for power generated. Taekwondo rear-leg roundhouse is probably the most efficient kick for the massive power it generates. But is it an effective jab? Not in a million years.

So, which question are we asking? Power or effectiveness for the designed purpose?

[kensei]

the question of effective vs efficient or if something is effective and efficient can be answered by asking a few questions of each movement based on what you are looking for.

If you want to know if a technique is effective you need to ask if it has done what you set out to do with it. If you are asking if a Jab would be effective in knocking someone out, probably it would have a low score like 20%. While I have ended fights with a jab when working the door it was normally the set up for a different move, like jab, foot sweep knee the head of the downed opponent and then lock up to choke him out. Now if you want to know if a back leg round house kick is effective for Knocking someone out, yes, but you normally have to set it up with something like...well a jab. you should normally never just throw a kick at the head right off the bet. It can also loose its effectiveness based on some specific physical attributes, like flexibility and leg strength.

You can find out how efficient a technique is then you need to ask how much time and effort it takes to perform the technique and what the turn out is of the movement. So if you have to work really hard and the chances of the movement being successful and reaching the out come you want is low then it is not very efficient. Tobo Yoko geri is not very efficient as the want is a KO and the chances of that happening are fairly low, the amount of effort that you use to perform this movement is rather high say compared to a Mawashi zuki.

This can be viewed in different ways depending on your movement, approach to the move and goals. if you are looking at ending a fight the most effective ways would probably include things like leg kicks, punching combinations, bodylock trip take down to chokes and the like...the least effective/efficient would be jumping kicks, spinning kicks, fancy slappy hand attacks and complicated throws leading to complicated grappling submissions.

[bushido_man96]

Any technique can be effective, if it lands. Like jumping 540 degree spinning hook kick. Effective, if it lands on the noggin. Efficient, though? Not really. It takes a good setup, and is a long technique.

[sensei8]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/efficiency

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effectiveness+?s=t

By their very own definitions they are two separate words, however, imho, they can be the very same thing within the MA because it's not a matter of choice or importance, it's an issue of priority.

[straightblast]

Depends on the style, the most efficient and effective punch technique in JKD is the straight lead.

There are more types of jabs in boxing than the snappy one most of us see on TV.

I could effectivly do a flying side kick on a stunned mugger off the curb and into on comming car.